First time to threaten use of gun

[wgoforth]

Thanks for comments! My main reason for not pulling gun was due to the fact I was standing in my door and could have shut it at any point, thus not feeling my personal safety was in jeopardy. Wife has been told do NOT open door after dark, or for people she does not know. Chain lock will be added for some added security to open a door with chain still on. I am still trying to have him served with a criminal trespass warrant to establish my role in this.

[AustinPC]

This is one of those scenarios where I'm grateful we live on some acerage. If ANYONE knocks on our door, I sneak out the side/back with a long gun and they are proned out before I even get all the way around the corner to the front. If it's anytime after normal business hours (dusk/night) then the wife covers the door from the inside. Proned, restrained, and searched before anything else happens.

All the neighbors have each others numbers, as do the in-laws, so there's no reason for anyone to make it over the fence without calling first.

It's happened twice, once to a new neighbor who bought some property to the north of us and just wanted to introduce himself (He was glad to have us as neighbors once we got it all sorted out) and the second time was a county worker doing an "inspection," he forgot to read the "call before coming over" note located at the bottom of his work order.

Gotta love the country!

[Target1911]

WOW.....You did great....I second the comment that the BG could have been armed and drew when you told him you were armed so
I too would not have threatened to draw.

Remember that in you can open carry on any property that you own or are in control of......and there is no duty to retreat.
There is huge possibility that I would have gone through the front door with 911 ringing on the phone and pistol holstered in plain view and a long gun in my hands. (i use a blue tooth at all times so BOTH hands are free... how this started: i was in a foot chase with a BG [robbed my company at gun point]..pistol in one hand and cell phone in the other. I really hated not having BOTH hands free)

He would have only had few options then...get face down...run...or get perforated----and 911 would have recorded the whole thing.

I am the ONLY one that answers the door here and it is ALWAYS with a pistol in my hand. My g/f is few years younger than me and still gives me flak for it because she just doesn't understand why it is necessary. I still cant get her to see the importance of keeping her CELL PHONE CHARGED.

I'm glad all turned out good for you.

[AlaskanInTexas]

If ANYONE knocks on our door, I sneak out the side/back with a long gun and they are proned out before I even get all the way around the corner to the front. If it's anytime after normal business hours (dusk/night) then the wife covers the door from the inside. Proned, restrained, and searched before anything else happens.

I'm all for protecting one's home and family, but this strikes me as a tad extreme.

[AustinPC]

If ANYONE knocks on our door, I sneak out the side/back with a long gun and they are proned out before I even get all the way around the corner to the front. If it's anytime after normal business hours (dusk/night) then the wife covers the door from the inside. Proned, restrained, and searched before anything else happens.

I'm all for protecting one's home and family, but this strikes me as a tad extreme.

We live on a moderate size ranch and our house is almost half a mile from the road, secured gate, barbed fence. The only way to get to the house/door is to illegally jump the fence, make the walk/run/hike, and then knock. There is literally NO reason anyone should be at our door without prior warning.

There are a few other factors that come into play like prior thefts in the area, a community of less then legal individuals with less than legal histories occupying space to the west, occupations, etc. but that's the jist of it.

[AlaskanInTexas]

If ANYONE knocks on our door, I sneak out the side/back with a long gun and they are proned out before I even get all the way around the corner to the front. If it's anytime after normal business hours (dusk/night) then the wife covers the door from the inside. Proned, restrained, and searched before anything else happens.

I'm all for protecting one's home and family, but this strikes me as a tad extreme.

We live on a moderate size ranch and our house is almost half a mile from the road, secured gate, barbed fence. The only way to get to the house/door is to illegally jump the fence, make the walk/run/hike, and then knock. There is literally NO reason anyone should be at our door without prior warning.

There are a few other factors that come into play like prior thefts in the area, a community of less then legal individuals with less than legal histories occupying space to the west, occupations, etc. but that's the jist of it.

Thanks for the clarification. My concern - aside from the rather unorthodox greeting - was that you may not be justified in using force, opening yourself up to criminal/civil charges or the possibility that the visitor could use justified deadly force. But given that they would be trespassing (assuming the locked gate qualifies as "fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock"), my concerns are alleviated.

[AustinPC]

Thanks for the clarification. My concern - aside from the rather unorthodox greeting - was that you may not be justified in using force, opening yourself up to criminal/civil charges or the possibility that the visitor could use justified deadly force. But given that they would be trespassing (assuming the locked gate qualifies as "fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock"), my concerns are alleviated.

It does, so they would be. Sorry for the lack of clarification.

[Medic218]

First and foremost I'm glad you and your wife are ok, scary ordeal I'm sure though.
I think you did everything perfectly except maybe giving him a warning. Someone mentioned that bad guys also carry and he could have used that info to try to get the drop on you.
I would like to think i would just have my hand on the grip, at the ready just in case.

To add to what Keith was saying....a door to door guy should never tell you "I'm not taking no for an answer". Thats when I would initially call the cops. At that point, to me, that is harassment.

If I tell someone to get of the small bit of land I call my own and they blatantly defy me with multiple "no" responses and they kept walking towards me....yeah, I'd be in full red and he runs a high risk of being perforated.

How was he advancing? A casual walk? A brisk walk? Aside from saying "no" and continuing in your direction was there anything particularly threatening about his demeanor? Just curious.

[rtschl]

Thanks for posting. Gave me the opportunity to remind my family about answering the door.

Ron

[speedsix]

...you handled it well, including the warning him that you had a gun...when he refused to get off your property after being seen peering into your van...that was cause enough to get tough...Texas requires anyone selling burglar alarms to be licensed through the same dept. that licenses P.I.s...he should have had that, unless he was canvassing for leads only...then he should have had your locality's sales permit that most cities require door-to-door salesmen to have...betcha he had neither...if he DID have a license to sell alarms, you should report the incident in detail to the state and they might pull his license...
...I had a meat salesman tell me he had the right to stay in my yard and tell me about his wares a coupla years ago, but he turned crawfish when I told him I had the right to have his butt locked up for trespassing or worse...he didn't ask what or worse meant...
...I'm with Keith B...a real salesman knows when to leave...the right attitude when the homeowner was hostile has gotten me roofing sales more than once...folks do want their property rights respected...'specially in Texas!!! glad it all turned out right and some warrants got served on the scumbag...

[papajohn1964]

...you handled it well, including the warning him that you had a gun...when he refused to get off your property after being seen peering into your van...that was cause enough to get tough...Texas requires anyone selling burglar alarms to be licensed through the same dept. that licenses P.I.s...he should have had that, unless he was canvassing for leads only...then he should have had your locality's sales permit that most cities require door-to-door salesmen to have...betcha he had neither...if he DID have a license to sell alarms, you should report the incident in detail to the state and they might pull his license...
...I had a meat salesman tell me he had the right to stay in my yard and tell me about his wares a coupla years ago, but he turned crawfish when I told him I had the right to have his butt locked up for trespassing or worse...he didn't ask what or worse meant...
...I'm with Keith B...a real salesman knows when to leave...the right attitude when the homeowner was hostile has gotten me roofing sales more than once...folks do want their property rights respected...'specially in Texas!!! glad it all turned out right and some warrants got served on the scumbag...

Yep, they have to have a "Security Systems Sales Person Pocket Card" issued by the DPS Private Security Bureau in order to sell alarm systems. They can be arrested and receive a fine for the 1st offense and their company can also be fined. I live in a new subdivision so they are always coming around. I always ask to see their pocket card. If they give me a blank look I show them my "Alarm Systems Installer" card as an example. If they don't have one I tell them that if I see them going to one more house that I am going to call the cops.

I worked for one of these small residential companies for a couple of weeks and the way that they had us throwing systems in was ridiculous. Most new homes are pre-wired and we were told that if there was a bad wire or contact that we were not to trouble shoot or repair it, we were to just "strap it out" making it look to the system that it was ok. The problem is that if this window or door were to be forced open it would not cause a alarm. Be careful who you choose to install your system. Saving a few dollars a month probably won't be worth it. Insist to see that EVERY window and door causes a alarm when opened. And if you already have a system installed be sure to do your monthly system check on ALL of your zones including doors, windows, motion detectors, panic buttons and any other device that you may have.

[Mel]

And if you already have a system installed be sure to do your monthly system check on ALL of your zones including doors, windows, motion detectors, panic buttons and any other device that you may have.

Or if you have a teenage daughter..... When our daughter was at home, she "tested" our alarm system regularly. She just couldn't remember to turn it off. She got to talk with Plano Police officers more than once.

[speedsix]

...more than one papa invested in an alarm to control access and egress over teenagers!!!

...and papajohn 1964, you're right ... "cheap" is just another word for expensive... it costs money to do it right...used to sell/install "wireless" systems back in the day...

[rubiconjp]

Thanks for posting your incidence. Good reminder to us all regarding door-to-door salesmen.

[Vic]

Forgive me for playing the "What If" game, but what do you all imagine the legal ramifications would have been if the bad guy had not stopped advancing and shots had been fired? The prior criminal record and outstanding warrants were not known at that time, so that doesn't factor in at this point.

If this happened to me, and I'd shot and killed this unarmed guy for walking toward me, could I expect to be no-billed by the Grand Jury?

I realize that there are lots of variables in play. I suppose I could claim that I was in fear of death or serious bodily harm, so I shot the unarmed guy. Is it likely that this explanation would work before the Grand Jury? If I was elderly, I suppose it would have greater weight, but if I'm 39 and in good physical shape, what about in that case?

Would the jury be likely to decide that I should have just closed and locked the door and called the police as an alternative to drawing and firing? I understand that the Castle Doctrine doesn't require me to do this, but we're talking about deadly force on an unarmed subject.

I am IN NO WAY criticizing the original poster. I think you did great and if I were on a Grand Jury I would vote to no-bill a person defending themselves on their own property. However, I wonder if the other members of a Grand Jury would also see it this way. Would the law actually help me if I shot this unarmed person, or is it dependent on the mood of the Grand Jury that particular day?