Criminal charges for spilled milk?

[mamabearCali]

Look I understand there need to be consequences for children for their actions. But criminal charges for 8 year olds for a school dust-up, disorderly conduct charges for back-chat to a teacher, we have lost our collective minds.

Yet another reason I homeschool I am sure my 6 year old's ants in his pants would for sure get us a disorderly conduct charge--oh wait his conduct is supposed to be disorderly--he is 6 years old!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/edu ... print.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RoyGBiv]

The courts are substituting for absent/bad parents.
I'd prefer to fine the parents than the kids.

[Crossfire]

The courts are substituting for the SCHOOLS, since we have taken the power away from them to handle bad behavior.

The worst punishment the schools are allowed to give out is ISS (in-school-suspension). Really? Isn't that just a break from the classroom? Then, there is AEP (Alternative Education Program) where they just group all the really bad kids into one class room, so they can learn even worse behavior from each other.

What ever happened to putting the fear of REAL discipline into these kids? I remember paddlings. And, after school detention was NOT sitting in an air-conditioned classroom, doing nothing. No, it meant pulling weeds or washing teacher's cars, or painting stripes on the parking lot in the west Texas heat. (Not that any of these things ever happened to me. I was a perfect child.) But, I heard about it...

[mamabearCali]

If the courts are substituting for parents then they need to be charged with child abuse because criminal records for 8 year old dust ups and 16 year old mouthiness is just that--abusive.

These things need to be returned to the schools with a "don't send me such nonsense again!" from the judge. I am all for discipline and if we can't paddle the little darlings (and these days I can understand why the parents don't trust the schools to do this) when they are bad then I vote manual labor scrubbing desks/floors/whatever.

Do these ding dongs even think of what they could do to that child's future. One criminal infraction at 8 for getting in a fracas on the school bus (which a week's dismissal from the bus would have more than addressed) and then 8 years later that same child has a teacher who has a chip on their shoulder (believe me I have met some) and incites a child to back talk them (like a teen needs any reason to do that) and bam--a permanent criminal record for simple childhood nonsense that could have been easily handled without police interaction. I imagine we will see next jail terms for not turning in homework as that is direct disobedience.

[RottenApple]

The courts are substituting for the SCHOOLS, since we have taken the power away from them to handle bad behavior.

The worst punishment the schools are allowed to give out is ISS (in-school-suspension). Really? Isn't that just a break from the classroom? Then, there is AEP (Alternative Education Program) where they just group all the really bad kids into one class room, so they can learn even worse behavior from each other.

What ever happened to putting the fear of REAL discipline into these kids? I remember paddlings. And, after school detention was NOT sitting in an air-conditioned classroom, doing nothing. No, it meant pulling weeds or washing teacher's cars, or painting stripes on the parking lot in the west Texas heat. (Not that any of these things ever happened to me. I was a perfect child.) But, I heard about it...

This is not accurate in all states. Texas allows corporal punishment in schools. It is up to the school district to ban it. Many school districts in the state don't have any regulations either way.

According to this site (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934191.html), 20 states allow corporal punishment in schools.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

What ever happened to putting the fear of REAL discipline into these kids? I remember paddlings. And, after school detention was NOT sitting in an air-conditioned classroom, doing nothing. No, it meant pulling weeds or washing teacher's cars, or painting stripes on the parking lot in the west Texas heat.

Hear, hear.

Parents won't discipline because they don't have the guts - they'd rather be "friends" to their kids. They defer responsibility to the schools (but lord help the school if they "go too far"), and the schools in turn defer responsibility to the police and the courts.

Just perfect. Instead of giving Johnny a sore hiney for a few hours for being an obnoxious little brat, hey - welcome to your new criminal record, Johnny. All because parents don't have the guts to do what's right.

Don't let me bore anyone with stories of caning in school (I only got 6 strokes once or maybe twice, I misremember - typically it was just 2) - but I doubt you ever saw a better bunch of well-behaved (and pretty well-adjusted) kids in your life.

I have been saying for years that the problem is parents not wanting to be parents but friends. Andy hit the nail on the head.

[mamabearCali]

That may be true in many cases, but do not forget that parents are terrified that if they discipline little Jonny or little Susie and they go tell their teachers that "Mommy spanked me!" That mommy will lose custody of those children and could face charges. It happened in TX, just a few months ago. A mommy spanked a child, left a red mark--in-law grandma took the little girl to the hospital and Mom was charged and then I think convicted of assault on a child. The judge himself said "you can't spank kids these days."

So ladies and gentlemen we have parents that can't dicipline their children for fear of the schools/the courts, schools that can't discipline children for fear of the parents and the courts. And the children get the worst of it in all cases. It seems to me that everything is landing at the courts--perhaps we need some amount of common sense in our justice system for these types of situations. Perhaps the courts instead of prosecuting school misconduct should hand the case back to the school with a "don't ever send me such nonsense again," and the courts should protect a parents ability to discipline a child in such a manner that does not create lasting harm.

[sjfcontrol]

Yay for true common sense

There's a difference between child abuse and corrective discipline - but nobody "in charge" seems to want to grasp the nettle and define the line between the two.

Just ran across this today...

Code: Select all

§ 9.61. PARENT-CHILD.  (a) The use of force, but not 
deadly force, against a child younger than 18 years is justified:
		(1)  if the actor is the child's parent or stepparent or 
is acting in loco parentis to the child;  and
		(2)  when and to the degree the actor reasonably 
believes the force is necessary to discipline the child or to 
safeguard or promote his welfare.
	(b)  For purposes of this section, "in loco parentis" 
includes grandparent and guardian, any person acting by, through, 
or under the direction of a court with jurisdiction over the child, 
and anyone who has express or implied consent of the parent or 
parents.

and

Code: Select all

§ 9.62. EDUCATOR-STUDENT.  The use of force, but not 
deadly force, against a person is justified:
		(1)  if the actor is entrusted with the care, 
supervision, or administration of the person for a special purpose;  
and
		(2)  when and to the degree the actor reasonably 
believes the force is necessary to further the special purpose or to 
maintain discipline in a group.

[sugar land dave]

I assist dozens of high-school age young people each day. The first thing I do is make them aware of the rules, caution them that I have authority to have them removed from the group if they break a rule, and make them aware that I am not weak or afraid about enforcing rules. They get to choose whether they get the fun version or the not so fun version of me. My mission is to get all of them where they need to be, but if not all, then as many as possible.

Let me say that presenting the rules, explaining the whys of the rules, and making the punishment consistent and clear to all has obviated many potential difficulties for me and helped most of those in my care to reach their goals. If they get mad at me, I don't care. If I am not their friend, that's alright by me. My goal is to help those who will be helped and to assist those who are on the bubble to persevere.

That said, let me qualify by saying that if they are trying to improve, if they are just the victim of poverty or bad circumstance, I will move heaven and earth to help them make it through and better themselves. I was fortunate to have learned lessons from many great people. I owe it to society to pass those on to those who will live after me. GOD, country, family, strength, discipline. Words to live by.

[SewTexas]

Maybe I'm just the suspicious sort, but this article stinks of politics. A) It's in the Washington Post B) it's dated Aug 21, but school started Aug 22, soooo....what's it about? why???? C) there really seems to be no point other than Texas is mean to kids.

NOW> I have been a school bus driver. I can tell you, kids get a multitude, a plethora of chances...I drove the "bad" route, I never took a kid to court, or gave them a fine, but had that been an option back then, I can tell you, only one of mine would have been threatened with it...the one with an air-gun...this was before the orange stripe....yeh....that was my last day on that route....oh, the kid with the fire-crackers probably would have gotten the fine also...I did have a working camera and radio...not everyone had a camera in that district...although I ran the "poor man's country" route, I doubt anyone would have paid the fine anyway.