P51 crash in Reno, pilot a hero.

[philip964]

A P51 Mustang crashed into the crowd at the Reno air races. Pilot had a control failure, but saved the plane from going into the bleachers. Last report 75 injured, eleven dead, including two from Texas. Could have been so much worse.

Many people helping the injured, doing what they can. No ambulances or medical personnel are there only citizens. You see many men without shirts, they have taken them off to provide tourniqutes or temporary wound protection for the injured.

What is most surprising is the number of people walking around gawking.

[MadMonkey]

I'm sure he was a god pilot, but there's a reason you don't see 74 year old guys flying F-16's for the Air Force. It's possible it was an airframe issue, but still... flying under that kind of stress at that age??

A few team members and I were going to drive up to the races since we'd never been, but decided not to at the last minute. Thank God...

[Texas Dan Mosby]

I'm sure he was a god pilot, but there's a reason you don't see 74 year old guys flying F-16's for the Air Force.

While age CAN be a factor, it can just as easily contribute to success as failure. I'll give this pilot the benefit of the doubt.

This image was captured just prior to the crash....



Here's another pic...



Check out the port (left) side elevator (the tail) and see if you can notice anything different compared to the starboard (right) side elevator. Notice the gap? The elevator trim tab is missing. That's not good...

Something similar happened to pilot Bob Hannah (below), during a race. He was NOT 74, but he lost consciousness as a result of the initial failure, and thankfully regained consciousness.

Apparently, the left elevator trim tab came off the airplane at speed, causing the bird to abruptly pitch up, subjecting driver Hannah to over 10 G's of deceleration forces, and causing him to lose conciousness! When he came to, the raceplane had climbed to over 9,000 feet of altitude. A shaken Hannah regained control and brought Voodoo in for a safe landing.

Check out the bird Bob was flying:



Note the missing elevator trim tab...

Unlike Mr. Hannah, the pilot of this bird apparently felt something give prior to any violent attitude change. He called in a mayday, but the aircraft was seen to pitch violently up, roll, and head toward the ground. There is a good chance he felt the problem before it became critical and maintained control, but was knocked out due to the high-g's sustained when the failure went critical, resulting in an uncontrollable pitch up. Regardless, I don't think age was a factor in this event.

[philip964]

"I closed my eyes and said, 'I am going to die now,' " Fonda said. "I was literally preparing to die and then he jerked the plane away and it landed like 25 feet from us. I want his family to know he was a hero."

a quote from a survivor http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/09/17/nevada.plane.crash/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[MadMonkey]

Yes, but we don't know if the trim tab was the initial issue or if it came off as a result of the stresses on the airframe when he yanked the elevator. Look at the difference in the pilot position in some of the pics...

Normal (in other photos you can see the bulkhead at the rear of the canopy)



and on his way in yesterday



He's not even visible there. I wonder what really happened.

[esxmarkc]

Yup... I saw those photos. It looks as if the loss of the trim tab caused the plane to initially pitch up violently causing him to black out from G-Lock. In the videos, the plane makes a few uncontrolled rolls - just speculation but they were not likely caused by the faulty elevator but due to motor torque going unchecked by the unconscious pilot.

In the final shot there, his helmet is not even visible because he is blacked out and slumped forward. Pretty much supports what Texas Dan said in his post. Age was not much of a factor in this event.

[Texas Dan Mosby]

Yes, but we don't know if the trim tab was the initial issue or if it came off as a result of the stresses on the airframe when he yanked the elevator.

Yea, that's just a theory thrown around buy some muldoons on an aviation forum I frequent. One of the guys saw the initial pic minus the trim tab and was familiar with the "VooDoo" incident flown by Mr. Hannah.

We'll have to wait and see what the NTSB comes up with in their investigation.

[esxmarkc]

We'll have to wait and see what the NTSB comes up with in their investigation.

That certainly makes more sense than trying to armchair investigate it here.

There is one odd thing I noticed from the photos: that aircraft has had it's bottom scoop removed. Wonder what cooling scheme they converted it over to?

[dcphoto]

Forgive me if I come off sounding like a jerk, but instead of armchair analyzing a crash why not wait to see what the NTSB says.

I think it's premature to call him a hero, and I think it's premature to lay blame on a mechanical failure. It's also too soon to say it was pilot error. In other words, it's too soon to come to ANY conclusion about this crash.

[Heartland Patriot]

Forgive me if I come off sounding like a jerk, but instead of armchair analyzing a crash why not wait to see what the NTSB says.

I think it's premature to call him a hero, and I think it's premature to lay blame on a mechanical failure. It's also too soon to say it was pilot error. In other words, it's too soon to come to ANY conclusion about this crash.

The worst thing is that the media yells about it all (since there was such a loss of life and injury), but you can bet your behind that they will NEVER post anything about it later on, once the report comes out. And if it does manage to make it to some media outlet, it will be a small and insignificant article. Sensationalism...if WE want to find out what likely happened, we'll have to wait for that report and read it ourselves. My condolences to all those families who lost loved ones.

[Oldgringo]

I'm sure he was a good pilot, but there's a reason you don't see 74 year old guys flying F-16's for the Air Force or wearing their britches down below their butts. It's possible it was an airframe issue, but still... flying under that kind of stress at that age??

Did I fix that or what? Actually, the pilots who won the WWII air wars were just kids in their late teens and early twenty's. We were a different people back then. {SIGH}

[MadMonkey]

I'm sure he was a good pilot, but there's a reason you don't see 74 year old guys flying F-16's for the Air Force or wearing their britches down below their butts. It's possible it was an airframe issue, but still... flying under that kind of stress at that age??

Did I fix that or what? Actually, the pilots who won the WWII air wars were just kids in their late teens and early twenty's. We were a different people back then. {SIGH}

I haven't seen a modern Airman wearing his pants low either, though...

That's my point though, the younger pilots are in their prime. I'm not laying blame on the pilot, but I really think there should be an age limit, no matter how good of shape you're in, just as with driving. Just MHO.

[OldCurlyWolf]

I'm sure he was a good pilot, but there's a reason you don't see 74 year old guys flying F-16's for the Air Force or wearing their britches down below their butts. It's possible it was an airframe issue, but still... flying under that kind of stress at that age??

Did I fix that or what? Actually, the pilots who won the WWII air wars were just kids in their late teens and early twenty's. We were a different people back then. {SIGH}

I haven't seen a modern Airman wearing his pants low either, though...

That's my point though, the younger pilots are in their prime. I'm not laying blame on the pilot, but I really think there should be an age limit, no matter how good of shape you're in, just as with driving. Just MHO.

I want to be there when your DL/CHL and any other license is yanked because you are "too old" and for no other logical reason.

[steve817]

I'm sure he was a good pilot, but there's a reason you don't see 74 year old guys flying F-16's for the Air Force or wearing their britches down below their butts. It's possible it was an airframe issue, but still... flying under that kind of stress at that age??

Did I fix that or what? Actually, the pilots who won the WWII air wars were just kids in their late teens and early twenty's. We were a different people back then. {SIGH}

After having seen some video of the pilot I quickly determined that he got around better at 74 than I do at 45.

[Dave2]

That's my point though, the younger pilots are in their prime. I'm not laying blame on the pilot, but I really think there should be an age limit, no matter how good of shape you're in, just as with driving. Just MHO.

I want to be there when your DL/CHL and any other license is yanked because you are "too old" and for no other logical reason.

Yeah. If you want to pull someone's license because their sight is too far gone, or their reaction time is too slow, or even because they can't see over the dashboard, go right ahead. But you'd better apply the same standards to drivers of all ages.