Would you knowingly sell a bad gun

[wgoforth]

I am curious, you don't have to confess (although good for the soul ) how do you feel about knowingly selling a gun with issues, without volunteering it has such. is this kosher? Do you feel it's the norm? For me, I could not in good conscience sell such until I have had the problem corrected. I couldn't have it on my conscience if someone bought it, tried it, it worked fine...then the moment they needed it to defend a life, click. This is not the folllowing scenerio... ie, I once had a gun I sent back 3 times. It then worked fine, but I lost confidence in it. I had no probelm selling it without volunteering knowing it was corrected as far as I could tell, and the gun had a lifetime warranty.

But suppose you had a bad gun, couldn't get it fixed. Your opinion on selling this to another without disclosure.

[cbunt1]

At the risk of having myself labelled a "horse-trader" my answer is "It depends..."

If I'm trading/selling with someone who has the same level of expertise as I do in the context, I might. For example, if I've got a 1911 that won't reliably feed a certain hollowpoint round except from a particular brand of magazine, and I'm trading/swapping/selling with one of my competition buddies, who also tinkers/troubleshoots/works on 1911's, probably not. Of course, the price negotiations would likely reflect the glitches...I've also bought guns that someone else had issues with, with the mindset that I'd have to fix them, or get them fixed.

If I'm selling a gun "at large" to someone who is buying a first or second gun, I'd disclose what I know about it, and let them make an informed decision, and go from there. If in my opinion, the buyer doesn't know what he/she's getting into, I might even put the brakes on the deal.

Much like I dealt with cattle buyers when I was in that business. Fellow breeders, who bought and sold at the big auctions, and worked with the breeding services operate at a level of knowledge that indicates to me I should disclose the cow's breeding and pedigree, and let the breeder make his own informed decisions based on that information...auction traders got what they saw (and bid accordingly), as did I when I bought at auction. Individuals buying a first cow, or adding a bull to their herd from mine would get all the information I had, both good and bad, and made informed decisions, and FFA/4H project buyers were guided to the most beneficial decision I could help them make.

In the specific case, if you're not sure about the gun and its condition, but you want to get rid of it/trade it for something else, take it to a gun show, and let one of the buyers/dealers make their own professional (or informed) buying decisions....you may not get the best price for a gun this way, but you've sold it in good faith and concience to someone who is informed enough to know what they're buying/trading on.

Just my opinion. I'm not a lawyer, dealer, or gunsmith...

[The Annoyed Man]

Not knowingly, no. At least, not without informing the person that there was a problem that needed to be addressed, and taking that into account in my selling price.

Flip side.... What is "bad?" I sold a Kel-Tech P3AT not too long ago to another member here. I though it was a bad gun....as in, I couldn't stand it. But it functioned perfectly well. It was just a sucky gun. I gave the buyer a fair price for it—considerably less than I paid for it, and it only had 50-100 rounds at most down the pipe—and he indicated that he thought it was a fair price, and he got exactly what he wanted. I got rid of a gun that was just using up cubic centimeters of space inside my house.

[wgoforth]

Not knowingly, no. At least, not without informing the person that there was a problem that needed to be addressed, and taking that into account in my selling price.

Flip side.... What is "bad?" I sold a Kel-Tech P3AT not too long ago to another member here. I though it was a bad gun....as in, I couldn't stand it. But it functioned perfectly well. It was just a sucky gun. I gave the buyer a fair price for it—considerably less than I paid for it, and it only had 50-100 rounds at most down the pipe—and he indicated that he thought it was a fair price, and he got exactly what he wanted. I got rid of a gun that was just using up cubic centimeters of space inside my house.

You are correct...by "bad" I mean malfunctions rather than not liking it. We've all had guns like that. I saw a gun I read about in a magazine...high dollar. HAD to have it, no one had it..so I special ordered it. Moment I held it i KNEW I had made a mistake. Function was fine, just felt horrid.

[Keith B]

There are malfunctions that can be due to the individual user and nothing with the firearm. I have seen instances when a gun would malfunction for one person and run flawlessly for another. This could be a FTF/FTE due to weak wristing (light small guns are notorious for that), different ammo use, etc etc.

Bottom line, if there is not a true mechanical problem with the gun, and it would run fine for others, then nothing to disclose to the buyer. If there is a problem with the gun and it is disclosed to the buyer, no issue. If you fail to disclose that there is a true mechanical problem with the gun, then shame on you, but it is up to your own personal conscience to do the right thing or not.

[OldCannon]

If I had a gun I was selling, and it had a feature I didn't like, I'm more than open about saying what I didn't like. For instance, I had a Taurus PT1911. Within one month, the "safety feature" on the hammer (a turn screw that locked the pistol) failed TWICE while I was firing, rendering the pistol inoperable. I regard this as a life-threatening design, and (to this day) recommend people avoid Taurus firearms with such a device. To other people though, they regard this as a nice feature, and that the "screw drift" problem can be fixed with some LocTite. I actually sold mine to a police officer who wanted it as his duty weapon, in spite of describing what I just mentioned. I got a beat up Glock 35 out of it and I couldn't be happier, in spite of me losing $100 or so in terms of trade value. He walked away happy, and so did I, and my conscience is clear.

[RPB]

Honesty in weights and measures is the best policy.

If I sold something that I knew "needed work" I'd disclose it, advising what work it needed/problem it had and price accordingly

I sold a CHL friend a batch of about 5 guns for $600.00 once when I needed money; all were unfired unfired great condition models like 3 North American Arms 22s and a .38 derringer and another one I forget and.... I threw in a freebie Grendel .380 which was so rusted I told the guy if he can use any part of it it's his free. (It had somehow gotten stored in a bucket of water for 5 years or 10 years so and forgotten ... I mean sure I might have sold the block of rust for 5 bucks, but you'd pretty well know why it only cost 5 bucks.

[wgoforth]

Honesty in weights and measures is the best policy.

If I sold something that I knew "needed work" I'd disclose it, advising what work it needed/problem it had and price accordingly

I sold a CHL friend a batch of about 5 guns for $600.00 once when I needed money; all were unfired unfired great condition models like 3 North American Arms 22s and a .38 derringer and another one I forget and.... I threw in a freebie Grendel .380 which was so rusted I told the guy if he can use any part of it it's his free. (It had somehow gotten stored in a bucket of water for 5 years or 10 years so and forgotten ... I mean sure I might have sold the block of rust for 5 bucks, but you'd pretty well know why it only cost 5 bucks.

Stored in bucket of water.... New Orleans Katrina seizure was it

[Dave2]

Not knowingly, no. At least, not without informing the person that there was a problem that needed to be addressed, and taking that into account in my selling price.

I'll cheerfully sell you a broken piece of junk, but I will tell you it's a broken piece of junk first. If I don't mention any issues to you, then I don't know about them or they're so minor that I've forgotten they exist.

And that doesn't just apply to guns.

[CC Italian]

If it was something that could be a safety issue like cracked slide or barrel etc. NO!!! I sold my Bersa 380 cc to my girlfriends step dad and I told him that every so often it would FTF. I let him shoot it and he liked it so he bought it. There was nothing wrong with the gun, just not as dependable as a wanted for a BUG. I always treat people how I want to be treated. I don't hide anything when selling a firearm!!

[hpcatx]

For me, I could not in good conscience sell such until I have had the problem corrected.

Even after the problem has been corrected, I think that you should feel obliged to reveal the nature of the fix. While the buyer should thoroughly use the gun before relying upon it to save his or her life, the buyer may not be knowledgeable enough or not have adequate time to so properly.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Not disclosing a known defect with any product is grounds for a Texas Consumer Protection & Deceptive Trade Practices Act lawsuit. If it's a safety risk, the damage model can be even higher, especially if it gets the buyer seriously injured or killed. For example, if a purchaser buys a gun from someone who knows the purchaser intends to use it for self-defense and the seller fails to disclose that the gun is unreliable, the seller's likely going to lose a suit if the gun's malfunction gets the purchaser killed.

Chas.

[speedsix]

...sounds like Texas law might have been fashioned after the Golden Rule...

[RPB]

Honesty in weights and measures is the best policy.

If I sold something that I knew "needed work" I'd disclose it, advising what work it needed/problem it had and price accordingly

I sold a CHL friend a batch of about 5 guns for $600.00 once when I needed money; all were unfired unfired great condition models like 3 North American Arms 22s and a .38 derringer and another one I forget and.... I threw in a freebie Grendel .380 which was so rusted I told the guy if he can use any part of it it's his free. (It had somehow gotten stored in a bucket of water for 5 years or 10 years so and forgotten ... I mean sure I might have sold the block of rust for 5 bucks, but you'd pretty well know why it only cost 5 bucks.

Stored in bucket of water.... New Orleans Katrina seizure was it

long sad story, they had been stored with a collection another person owned. He had new carpeting installed and didn't want things disappearing so he moved them all to the attic, then he had new air conditioning ductwork done and he moved them to a shed "temporarily" while guys were in the attic ... apparently the grendel fell in a bucket, shed roof leaked ... no one noticed and it didn't get brought back in ...

It's my "never again" lesson I learned in the 1990s.

[wgoforth]

For me, I could not in good conscience sell such until I have had the problem corrected.

Even after the problem has been corrected, I think that you should feel obliged to reveal the nature of the fix. While the buyer should thoroughly use the gun before relying upon it to save his or her life, the buyer may not be knowledgeable enough or not have adequate time to so properly.

Legitimate point... and I have chosen to do that. When I sold one gun, I told them it was working fine now, but that the manufacturer had replaced the extractor.