Technically.. did I need my CHL?

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

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flintknapper
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Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by flintknapper »

A little after dark this evening there was a knock at my door and when I answered it…I was met by a gentleman asking if I owned any Donkeys? I don’t….so I told him no and asked why?

Apparently a couple of Donkeys had gotten out on the FM road I live on…and a Salt Water truck had hit one of them. The man that came to my door had found the animal in the middle of the road and he and another man pulled it off the road and into MY driveway! :roll:

The Donkey was still very much alive…but clearly had a broken hip and internal injury. The Sheriff’s department was called, but the DPS showed up first. After trying to locate the owner of the animals (unsuccessfully), a call was placed to a Vet and the determination to “put the animal down” was made (Thank Goodness).

The DPS trooper flat out refused to shoot it, said “they were not allowed to”. The Sheriff’s deputy said he would do it….but asked if I knew anyone nearby with a gun that would do it instead. He told me that anytime they fire their weapon (for any reason)…they have to fill out a lot of paperwork.

I told him that I would take care of the matter if he would arrange for removal of the carcass the next morning.

This is where my question comes into play.

The Donkey was laying facing downhill with roughly one half of its body in the easement of the highway, the other half on my property. I was on MY property when I shot the animal and the part of the animal I shot was on MY property as well.

Of course, neither the Deputy or the Trooper had any problem with this (they were shining their spotlights on it for me) but I thought it an odd situation and later was contemplating the legality of it all. Anyway, we were all relieved (including the Donkey) when it was over.

One final note: It was difficult to get the second Donkey herded into my pasture (until its owner can be found). I have to wonder if it was thinking a similar fate was in store for it? :???:
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C-dub
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Re: Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by C-dub »

Interesting, odd, and unfortunate.

I guess since they both said it was okay and assisted you were acting under their direction and you would be perfectly legal in what you did.
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Divided Attention
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Re: Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by Divided Attention »

Donkeys are unfortunately, very crafty and quite smart. Ours opens gate latches and finds himself in trouble with "Momma" often. If the one saw the other being euthanized he/she may very well have thought this was not a safe place to be. I am thinking if the officers asked you to do the deed, you were on your property, all is well. I am sorry you had to do it, as it is never easy, but a necessary part sometimes of dealing with livestock. JMPHO! I am so far from being a lawyer I can't even see it on the horizon.
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RoyGBiv
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Re: Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by RoyGBiv »

C-dub wrote:Interesting, odd, and unfortunate.

I guess since they both said it was okay and assisted you were acting under their direction and you would be perfectly legal in what you did.
:iagree:
Outside city limits, under LE supervision / direction, on your own property. No problem, IMO.
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flintknapper
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Re: Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by flintknapper »

Divided Attention wrote:Donkeys are unfortunately, very crafty and quite smart. Ours opens gate latches and finds himself in trouble with "Momma" often. If the one saw the other being euthanized he/she may very well have thought this was not a safe place to be. I am thinking if the officers asked you to do the deed, you were on your property, all is well. I am sorry you had to do it, as it is never easy, but a necessary part sometimes of dealing with livestock. JMPHO! I am so far from being a lawyer I can't even see it on the horizon.
Yeah, no ones wakes up in the morning thinking "I'd sure like to shoot a Donkey today ;-) ", but I live out in the country and from time to time... livestock requires that you do them a final "kindness" and put them out of their misery. I don't have any problem with that (when executed properly, humanely and with a somber attitude).

But I felt bad for the officers, they both were clearly concerned about the animal and it suffering, but neither was "free" to actually dispatch it...without having to account for the discharge of their weapon.

Sometimes "good policy" has unintended consequences.
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wharvey
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Re: Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by wharvey »

In this situation I don't think there would have been an issue even if you hadn't been on your property. I doubt you'd get in trouble doing what you did since it was at the request of two policeman who were on site. Years ago, before there was such a division between normal citizens and law enforcement it wasn't that uncommon, specially in more rural areas, for law enforcement to enlist help from the citizenry.

Truthfully in many rural areas there wouldn't have been any problem even without law enforcement being present.
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Shinesintx
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Re: Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by Shinesintx »

Interesting story. Interesting outcome possibilities. Maybe, and I say mabye...I would have had them sign something authorizing that I shoot the animal. In this day and age, ya never know.

Something else to note. Even if the Donkey was ten feet inside of your property, its actually illegal to discharge a weapon that close to the road. Positive that you have to be 25-100 yards away from a public road. Why do I know this? Had a conversation with a Sheriff when I was quail hunting on the side of a county road years ago. :lol:
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Re: Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by cbunt1 »

No worries. Been there, have had to do that. I empathize with you, it is never easy, and it doesn't get any easier the next time. Just know you did the right thing in providing a final kindness to one of God's creatures.

I've even been offered the use of a deputy's service weapon for the task--apparently in some counties (rural) its not that the duty weapon is discharged, but that the deputy himself actually fired the shot. As mentioned before, unintended consequences.

You're good to go. There are laws about firing too close to the road, but i can't imagine getting ringed for it, since clearly a mitigiating circumstance was in play. In short, its unlawful to discharge a firearm from a public road, but if it serves a greater need, you're good to do what needs to be done.

Don't have law to cite (on my phone now,) but I'd feel fine with it.
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sjfcontrol
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Re: Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by sjfcontrol »

Shinesintx wrote:Interesting story. Interesting outcome possibilities. Maybe, and I say mabye...I would have had them sign something authorizing that I shoot the animal. In this day and age, ya never know.

Something else to note. Even if the Donkey was ten feet inside of your property, its actually illegal to discharge a weapon that close to the road. Positive that you have to be 25-100 yards away from a public road. Why do I know this? Had a conversation with a Sheriff when I was quail hunting on the side of a county road years ago. :lol:
PC 42.01 Disorderly Conduct section (a)(9) says you commit an offense if you "discharge a firearm on or across a public road". Its a class C misdemeanor. There is nothing I can see that you have to be "X" number of yards away. And besides -- 25-100 yards? Which is it, 25 or 100? If you're 50 yards away are you OK or not?

Also, section (e) states "It is a defense to prosecution for an offense under Subsection (a)(7) or (9) that the person who discharged the firearm had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to the person or to another by a dangerous wild animal as defined by Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code.

Not quite the same as described, but I thought it was appropriate to mention.
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Re: Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by speedsix »

Shinesintx wrote:Interesting story. Interesting outcome possibilities. Maybe, and I say mabye...I would have had them sign something authorizing that I shoot the animal. In this day and age, ya never know.

Something else to note. Even if the Donkey was ten feet inside of your property, its actually illegal to discharge a weapon that close to the road. Positive that you have to be 25-100 yards away from a public road. Why do I know this? Had a conversation with a Sheriff when I was quail hunting on the side of a county road years ago. :lol:
...now I wanna say I love the po-lice...having been one...but that last sentence is HARDLY authority for the post...LEOs give some of the worst legal advice and will make up laws to fuss at you about, confident that you'll never do what we do here:LOOK IT UP...I wouldn't be hangin' my hat on what the Sheriff said... :lol:
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Re: Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by longtooth »

Not a lawyer but an Instructor.

"Reasonable & necessary" is the factor that makes other clauses inapplicable.

Reasonable & Necessary to put the animal down.
Reasonable for Flint to do it considering the DPS regs & the Sheriff paperwork.

IANAL.
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Re: Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by speedsix »

...back to the title question...no, you didn't need a CHL on your own property...to carry concealed or openly...in Texas...
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Re: Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by Dragonfighter »

speedsix wrote:...back to the title question...no, you didn't need a CHL on your own property...to carry concealed or openly...in Texas...

If the question did come up as the animal was not ENTIRELY on your property, IIRC there is a law allowing a sworn officer to enlist the help of a citizen. Couldn't find it.
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Re: Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by Medic218 »

I would be inclined to think that if they were both giving you the go ahead that you would have been good to go even if it had been off your property in a ditch or something.
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Re: Technically.. did I need my CHL?

Post by paulhailes »

Sec. 8.06. ENTRAPMENT. (a) It is a defense to prosecution that the actor engaged in the conduct charged because he was induced to do so by a law enforcement agent using persuasion or other means likely to cause persons to commit the offense. Conduct merely affording a person an opportunity to commit an offense does not constitute entrapment.
(b) In this section "law enforcement agent" includes personnel of the state and local law enforcement agencies as well as of the United States and any person acting in accordance with instructions from such agents.


You could argue this. This isn't what I was looking for but as it was the only thing I could find I decided to post it. I am pretty sure there is a defense if you are acting at the direction of a Peace Officer but I couldn't find it.
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