Gun Exchange Question

[stash]

I have a new (never been shot by me) LCR in .357 that I am sending back to Ruger for the second time because of a finish problem. I am going to enclose a letter with the gun requesting that they provide me a new replacement in the same model or give them the option of some of their other revolver models. My question, should Ruger decide to provide me another gun, does it have to go through a FFL or can they send it directly to me?

I have to say, Ruger's customer service is really very good. I just wish the finish on the .357 LCR was as good as the finish on the .38 LCR.

[i8godzilla]

If it has a different serial number it must go through a FFL.

[Salty1]

I have not had any problems with my 357 finish, sounds to me like it may be a problem with the way your gun was origionally finished. Ruger is very good at customer satisfaction. I expect they may totally refinish it one more time then if you have issues replace the gun. What do you use to clean the gun?

[speedsix]

...I haven't found the law regarding manufacturers replacing a weapon yet, but if an FFL licensee(gunsmith or gunshop) takes in a gun from an unlicensed person for repair...returning it or giving the unlicensed person a replacement firearm is not subject to Brady and doesn not require a NICS check OR 4473 being filled out...the licensee simply records the "old" gun coming in and the "new" gun going out in his permanent "bound" book...

...so far, I've found one gunshop's website that says if a gun sent to the mfgr. must be replaced, the replacement DOES have to go through an FFL...to associate the new serial number with you...but don't find yet if that FFL must do a 4473 and NICS on you or just show it in his bound book...you may have to get ATF to show you the rule on that part...
...if you want to simplify it...send the gun in through your local FFL...THEY will be the ones delivering the replacement and bound book will be all that's required by law...may pay a fee to them unless they waive it for the transfer...(to save time, you could send Ruger a copy of your local's FFL when you send the gun in and they'd be all set)

[stash]

I have not had any problems with my 357 finish, sounds to me like it may be a problem with the way your gun was originally finished. Ruger is very good at customer satisfaction. I expect they may totally refinish it one more time then if you have issues replace the gun. What do you use to clean the gun?

Salty - When I got the gun initially I went to wipe it off with a silicone cloth and the black finish came off. I called Ruger and they said that did not sound right and to send it back which I did. I got the gun two days ago and wiped it again and some black stuff came off but there are pencil size dots that show the stainless steel below the finish. I called again and spoke to CS and they said send it back. The CS person said to write another letter with the problem and request a replacement gun. The CS person said something like Ruger was looking for another finish for the .357 LCR (black oxide) which is a different from on the .38 LCR (synergistic). I should have indicated in my previous post that I don't want Ruger to send me another .357 if it is finished in black oxide. So to make a long story short I never cleaned the gun, I just wiped it down with the silicone cloth. It is noted that the instruction manual for the Ruger LCR (both .38 and .357) indicate they are finished in synergistic but my .357 is finished in the black oxide and is indicated so on the box.

Anyway, I am a big fan of Ruger revolvers and I will take another .38 LCR from them if they offer it.

[Middle Age Russ]

Over a year ago, I sent a 325PD back to S&W using their label. When they shipped it back to me, it was an entirely different gun with a different serial number, and it came directly to my door -- not through an FFL. I believe manufacturers have a bit more leeway regarding shipping firearms than regular folks.

[stash]

Speedsix, thanks for the info and taking the time to check it out.

[speedsix]

Over a year ago, I sent a 325PD back to S&W using their label. When they shipped it back to me, it was an entirely different gun with a different serial number, and it came directly to my door -- not through an FFL. I believe manufacturers have a bit more leeway regarding shipping firearms than regular folks.

...thanks for this first hand report...I couldn't find it in the Fed. Ref. Guide... If Ruger'll send him a prepaid calltag, he'll be home free...

[Salty1]

I had a customer call who was getting a replacement from Taurus and they wanted an FFL to send it to in order to deliver it to him. They actually paid the FFL fee, once a firearm is received by an FFL they have to put it into the books and the background check becomes mandatory..... unless they have the CHL but the 4473 is still required

[speedsix]

...according to ATF Pub 5300.4, General Questions section (P24), an unlicensed person(customer) delivers to a licensee a weapon for repair...the licensee enters the receipt into his bound book...if that licensee repairs the gun, and returns it to the same customer, there is no 4473 and no NICS involved. If the weapon is not repairable and a replacement is transferred from the licensee to that same customer, there is no 4473 and no NICS check...neither are subject to Brady...a licensee can be a manufacturer or dealer or gunsmith...

HOWEVER...if the customer sends his gun directly to Ruger, and Ruger chooses to send it back or sends a replacement NOT to the customer's house directly but to an FFL (due to their policies)...here's the question...
...of course, the FFL gets the gun from the manuf. and enters it and where it came from in his permanent record....BUT does (P24) apply to this third party transfer or not??? If he logs it out to the customer and shows it was a replacement, does the ATF simply go to the shipping manufacturer and see what happened?

Smith & Wesson has done it customer's door to factory and replacement back without a dealer FFL being involved...
Springfield Arms told me the same thing...I ship with their call tag a 1911 to them from my home and they ship the repaired gun back to my home...no dealer FFL

Taurus seems to require shipment through an FFL...which is their option...but not required on repaired or replacement weapons that have been shipped by customer directly to the manuf.

I can't find it in the guide...I called local ATF and an agent's checking on it...I'll post about the third-party deal when he calls back...

[speedsix]

...OK, the local ATF says since the local FFL didn't receive the damaged firearm in from the customer, but from the manufacturer, then the local FFL has to do the 4473 and NICS(unless CHL)...(P24) only covers gun in to licensee and same or replacement gun back to same customer...the shipping to the manuf. changed things...

...if, in this case, Ruger gets the damaged gun from you directly, and either repairs or replaces it, they can log it back out to you in the permanent record no Brady or NICS and ship it right back to you...

...if their policy is like Salty1 said about Taurus and they won't ship it back directly to you...the FFL who gets it from them and transfers it to you has to do the 4473/NICS... the reason isn't the different serial number on a replacement, it's the chain of possession...

...also found out Sept 2005 is still the latest 5300.4

[punkndisorderly]

Is the finish coming off in flakes, chunks, etc, or is the cloth just dark or dirty looking after wiping it down? If it's the latter, it may be normal for that particular gun from what I've read elsewhere. Rather than sending it back, you may want to consider seeing if the issue goes away on its own.

If you see bare metal, that's not normal.otherwise, I'd shoot it. If it's still rubbing off in a few months, then Ruger will take care of it, i'm sure.

[stash]

UPS is suppose to pick up the gun today and will have a calltag from Ruger just like the first time I sent it in.

No finish is coming off in chunks or anything like that but black comes off on the rag when I wipe it, but not as bad as the first time. This time though I can see metal pencil point size in several places.

Actually it was the customer service person who suggested that I request a new gun in my letter.

I don't like that black oxide finish but can live with it if they re-finish it again in the oxide. But boy it sure is different than the LCR in .38.

Again thanks speedsix for doing all that checking re the FFL thing.

[speedsix]

...you're welcome...did Ruger say if they'd send the repaired/replacement gun directly back to you or did they want to run it through a local dealer?

[stash]

...you're welcome...did Ruger say if they'd send the repaired/replacement gun directly back to you or did they want to run it through a local dealer?

They will send the repaired gun back to me (at least they did the first time), but I don't know what they will do if they replace it.

EDIT

Got a letter yesterday (12/23/11)from Ruger indicating they are going to replace the gun as a "gesture of goodwill" and it will be sent to me through a "licensed dealer". I pretty much figured that Ruger would make this thing good. Now the hunt is on for a FFL which is kinda hard in that I live out in the sticks.