Handgun on Boat

[OfficerJoe2442]

I have been unable to find a 100% answer to this question. Can I open carry on my boat, while fishing on the brazos river? I am in the process of getting my CHL, so I do not have one. I set throw lines on the brazos and constantly have to cut my line because of huge gar. It's easier to shoot them then to pull a 4' monster in the boat alive. I know I can keep a handgun in a lock box onboard but can I open carry? Anyone know were to find the written law?

[RPB]

Several issues :

Can I open carry on my boat, while fishing on the brazos river?

No open carry if you aren't a Law Enforcement Officer ...

Texas Penal Code chapter 46, (46.02) (as updated by HB 25) allows you to conceal, (doesn't have to be in a locked box) in watercraft or motor vehicle, even without a CHL http://libertysblog.dyndns.tv/mediawiki ... NG_WEAPONS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:

(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:

(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating;

Also, "wasting fish" ... I'd hope that if you shoot one, you still pull it aboard.
"A Criminal Activity" (not related to motor vehicle or boating) = wasting fish (if you don't retain it for consumption)
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations ... eral.phtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Waste of fish - It is unlawful to leave edible fish or bait fish taken from the public waters of the state to die without the intent to retain the fish for consumption or bait.

Gar Steaks http://www.bowfishingmadness.com/Gar-Cleaning.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They give you a good sleigh ride in a kayak On Dancer, On Prancer ...

(You might Consider looking into a "A powerhead, bang stick, or shark stick (a special firearm)" or a speargun ... both "commonly used in the sport of fishing.) http://www.google.com/search?q=bang+sti ... =firefox-a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not offering an opinion on the legality of those ..

I'm no lawyer ... but I fished at a Holiday Inn once, and that's my layman's opinion.

[fishfree]

In addition, IIRC, there is a limit (of 1?) on alligator gar.

As for open carry, if you dig deep enough there is a piece of the code that says you can open carry a handgun while engaged in hunting, fishing or other outdoor recreation where a handgun is normally used. The wording is sadly vague and subject to interpretation. The catch is a lot, maybe most, people do not consider guns to be normally used in fishing. (even though shooting large saltwater fish before or just after boarding them for safety is commonly done). IMHO, where there are cottonmouths a revolver IS standard fishing tackle

[RPB]

PowerHeads / BangSticks in various calibers http://www.beco-products.com/beco_catalog.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
These "ARE" commonly used firearms in the sport of fishing
.50 bmg should handle a gar (or 12 ga)

In addition, IIRC, there is a limit (of 1?) on alligator gar.

As for open carry, if you dig deep enough there is a piece of the code that says you can open carry a handgun while engaged in hunting, fishing or other outdoor recreation where a handgun is normally used. The wording is sadly vague and subject to interpretation. The catch is a lot, maybe most, people do not consider guns to be normally used in fishing. (even though shooting large saltwater fish before or just after boarding them for safety is commonly done). IMHO, where there are cottonmouths a revolver IS standard fishing tackle

Snakes are the reason I got my CHL ... walking a mile through unpopulated brush alone in low light conditions to launch a tiny plastic kayak ...miles from a medical center and snakes and 4 legged critters blocking the trail back to the car.... and being 2 miles out in the water and a slithery friend thinking the kayak is a nice resting log and crawling in with you ... just wakes me up too much ... I prefer coffee.

Also, I only addressed carrying, I'm not offering any opinion of any type on the *discharge* of firearms of any type, on waters owned by the State ... Several Miles out in the ocean, bangsticks are used by some kayaking shark fishermen

I ain't a lawyer

[Hoosier Daddy]

I think you can openly carry a handgun while boating on a pond on your own property but not on the Brazos River.

Anyone know were to find the written law?

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/d ... /PE.46.htm

[OfficerJoe2442]

I do not just shoot the gar and leave them. Usually we give them to the less fortunate. Yes, the limit is 1 Alligator gar but we catch all kinds. As I mentioned before, I set throw lines. I use 500lb line so when a big one gets on, he's there to stay. Unless you do this kind of fishing, you dont know what its like to pull a 100lb, flopping fish with teeth in a 14ft jon boat. As FishFree mentioned, I have been told it is ok to open carry if I am hunting or fishing but I cant find that specific law in writing. I was told by a game warden that she would prefer I keep it in my tackle box but, she never specified that i could not open carry.

[OfficerJoe2442]

http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/f ... p?t=196620" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/inde ... 15482.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RPB]

http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/f ... p?t=196620" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/inde ... 15482.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I skimmed/speedread those two links

1 is not Texas

One is Texas. and I noticed in one posted Feb 2011 (before boat carry without a CHL, under the MPA was legal-became effective 9-1-11) a post with a person who must have misunderstood their CHL instructor, thinking the instructor says that Texas has "open carry"

Chapter 46.02 is what you need to know for MPA carry, it allows non-chls to carry concealed in vehicles and watercraft, and you know the C in CHL means concealed Now after you're a LEO with TCLEOSE cert, pretty much do what you want probably.

I'd trust the answers here more than the fishing forums on when and how guns can be carried. I would give more weight to the fishing forums on what bait to use than I would the CHL forum answers on what bait to use.

Brazos ... "Strider" wrastles those gar as does Bowgarguide
http://www.texaskayakfisherman.com/foru ... it=strider" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Shark fishing from kayaks is similar ... heavy line etc
http://www.texaskayakfisherman.com/foru ... 8903b47d20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

here's just a little one Mythman caught out of High Island (He got that bigger more Stable Hobie PA kayak now )
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=410dqIFS_DU[/youtube]

I was looking for a vid of MM getting his leg cut when tail slapped by a 6 foot shark in his old kayak ... can't find it.

[Jumping Frog]

Your question is whether you can open carry a handgun. IMO, the operative question is not whether you can carry openly or concealed, but whether you can carry a handgun at all -- which the MPA exception pointed out above clearly shows you can.

As far as "open carry" is concerned, IANAL, but you can carry it without a license if you believe your handgun is considered to be a weapon to be "a type commonly used in the activity". The risk here, obviously, is if the LEO does not share the same opinion as you as to whether it meets that definition.

However, I would personally carry it concealed because you are less likely to cause alarm and get the kind of LEO attention that creates the potential of having to discuss the Penal Codes and your justification for carrying a weapon under unfavorable circumstances.

PC §46.20 is the UCW charge. The MPA exception requiring concealed is part of PC §46.20, however PC §46.20 does not apply in the below circumstances:

PC §46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
....
(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is enroute between the premises and the actor's residence motor vehicle, or watercraft, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

If PC §46.15 applies, then the requirement to be concealed -- part of PC §46.20 -- does not apply. The "intentional failure to conceal" issue from PC §46.035 does not apply since you are not a license holder.

Before moving to Texas, I used to carry IWB with my handgun grip exposed every day, and in years of doing so only had someone notice it a handful of times. If you spend any effort trying to conceal at all, the sheep out there will never notice. Besides, if you have a fish on the line, it doesn't exactly strike me that you have the need to be able to speed draw . .

[RPB]

46:15
a type commonly used in the activity;

That's a key issue
Spears/Spearguns/clubs to club a fish/long bladed fillet knives/Bang sticks/Shark Sticks normally covered in 46.02 are obviously "commonly used to fish."

Wonder if any poll results exist on how "common" is the "use" of a handgun in fishing (not how often is one carried while fishing, but how often used) and how handguns are commonly used to fish, and what "type" is commonly used to fish.

I can hear it now .... Voir Dire: to potential future jury: "You fish a lot, over the last 60 years of fishing, how often do you hear gunfire coming from fellow fishermen in the public place there while they are fishing? Never? ... ok, was the noise unreasonable from the lack of gunfire? no, ok, what TYPE of handgun did they use when they didn't discharge a firearm in that public place in order to fish?"

Handguns:
"type commonly used to fish" ?
Who knows, research would be needed I suppose.

What type is commonly carried while fishing? (That's not what the exemption covers) but
Just guessing
Typical lake/river
Stainless, rubber or plastic grips, or a Glock with the $10.00 Maritime/Marine Spring cups installed.


Careful: Don't get a 42.01 DISORDERLY CONDUCT charge, shooting fish (discharging) in a public place, and use a silencer
42.01 (7)
42.01 (5)
potentially
42.01 (8)

[WildBill]

IANAL, but I still think it's illegal to take a game fish with a gun.

[RPB]

IANAL, but I still think it's illegal to take a game fish with a gun.

True, but the fish is "caught" already, and the Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS "club" or "illegal knife" (commonly used in fishing) (or bangstick/shark stick etc) is to take the fight out of it so it can be unhooked without injury to the fisherman. Handguns are not as commonly used for that. If they were, the exception would be as obvious as a big fillet knife on a fisherman's belt and the "fish club" on deck.


If more people used guns instead of clubs, it would be "common" but I'm not risking a Disorderly Conduct and losing my CHL to make the practice "more common"

[WildBill]

IANAL, but I still think it's illegal to take a game fish with a gun.

True, but the fish is "caught" already, and the Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS "club" or "illegal knife" (commonly used in fishing) (or bangstick/shark stick etc) is to take the fight out of it so it can be unhooked without injury to the fisherman. Handguns are not as commonly used for that. If they were, the exception would be as obvious as a big fillet knife on a fisherman's belt and the "fish club" on deck

I agree that once it is "caught" by legal means and methods, then you could shoot it. IMO, after you catch it you are no longer "fishing", you are dispatching the animal.

I am talking about the fishing laws, not Section 46.02. According to the Texas regulations only approved devices can be used take fish. Guns are not on the approved list of devices.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations ... ices.phtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[denwego]

If I were just plain-old-fishing on a boat big enough to stand on nowadays with the law as it is post-9/1/11, I'd probably keep it concealed in a box or case somewhere nearby more for the sake of keeping it dry than for the sake of sheeple. I think the law was amended to allow unlicensed carry on a boat less for fishermen and more for the sake of this: http://abcnews.go.com/US/mexican-pirate ... d=11784598" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I've never heard of anyone being trouble for carrying while actually engaged in sporting activities (I'm sure it happens, I've just never heard of anyone having trouble)... it is poorly written as a judgement-call sort of thing, but the lawful sportsman isn't the problem when it comes to guns.

If I were fishing stream-side or lake-side on foot, I'd openly carry my revolver in a OWB holster and loaded with snake shot, which is exactly what I do when I'm hiking or camping. I don't think any game warden or anyone else who spends time outside in rural areas of Texas is going to say carrying some self defense against cottonmouths is inappropriate or unusual, and it's really what I worry about as a more immediate threat.

[there is no cake]

IANAL, but I still think it's illegal to take a game fish with a gun.

True, but the fish is "caught" already, and the Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS "club" or "illegal knife" (commonly used in fishing) (or bangstick/shark stick etc) is to take the fight out of it so it can be unhooked without injury to the fisherman. Handguns are not as commonly used for that. If they were, the exception would be as obvious as a big fillet knife on a fisherman's belt and the "fish club" on deck

I agree that once it is "caught" by legal means and methods, then you could shoot it. IMO, after you catch it you are no longer "fishing", you are dispatching the animal.

I am talking about the fishing laws, not Section 46.02. According to the Texas regulations only approved devices can be used take fish. Guns are not on the approved list of devices.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations ... ices.phtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It sure looks like firearms are not commonly used for legal fishing.