Never allowed to own a gun,vote,etc.

Gun, shooting and equipment discussions unrelated to CHL issues

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E.Marquez
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Re: Never allowed to own a gun,vote,etc.

Post by E.Marquez »

Oldgringo wrote:Our actions have consequences. A lesson that should be learned, beginning at a very early age, in the home. There are no excuses for bad manners or bad behavior.
True, and yet a very naive and simplistic view. Life is not that simple, no matter how much some want it to be. :tiphat:

There are no excuses for bad behavior :thumbs2: , but there are reasons, those unwilling to look at each event individually, and not as a one size fit all answer, in my opinion, truly do not understand what and how our laws are supposed to be applied.
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Re: Never allowed to own a gun,vote,etc.

Post by The Annoyed Man »

urnoodle wrote:I've posted on another thread about how I feel about a felon getting a CHL. Instead of rehashing the whole story, suffice it to say I feel violent felons should never be able to carry a firearm. For the non-violent felons limit to open carry.

I've worked in an industry for many years that may have resulted in me becoming more cynical. Somewhere along the line, I arrived at the realization that more often than not when I'm told a story by someone where his/her involvement or actions would result in negative feedback or perceptions, the storyteller tends to minimize their actual involvement to preclude judgement. I lean towards the occam's razor principal; all things being equal, the simplest explanation tends to be the right one. I do see that this is a narrow point of view, but more often than not it's the most realistic. Where I feel the justice system fails is in equal representation regardless of financial status, punishments that fit the crime, applying punishment consistently, plea bargaining and making deals. I've watched many trials and equate them to "reality tv", more fiction than fact.
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Re: Never allowed to own a gun,vote,etc.

Post by Oldgringo »

bronco78 wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:Our actions have consequences. A lesson that should be learned, beginning at a very early age, in the home. There are no excuses for bad manners or bad behavior.
True, and yet a very naive and simplistic view. Life is not that simple, no matter how much some want it to be. :tiphat:

There are no excuses for bad behavior :thumbs2: , but there are reasons, those unwilling to look at each event individually, and not as a one size fit all answer, in my opinion, truly do not understand what and how our laws are supposed to be applied.
Bronco, 'ol buddy, I reckon I appreciate what you're trying to do as a member of our armed services in a winless environment. :patriot:

I may be a lot of things, naive and simple ain't two of them. There are no excuses or reasons for bad behavior, there are only excuses. Capiche?
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Re: Never allowed to own a gun,vote,etc.

Post by E.Marquez »

Oldgringo wrote:
bronco78 wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:Our actions have consequences. A lesson that should be learned, beginning at a very early age, in the home. There are no excuses for bad manners or bad behavior.
True, and yet a very naive and simplistic view. Life is not that simple, no matter how much some want it to be. :tiphat:

There are no excuses for bad behavior :thumbs2: , but there are reasons, those unwilling to look at each event individually, and not as a one size fit all answer, in my opinion, truly do not understand what and how our laws are supposed to be applied.
Bronco, 'ol buddy, I reckon I appreciate what you're trying to do as a member of our armed services in a winless environment. :patriot:

I may be a lot of things, naive and simple ain't two of them. There are no excuses or reasons for bad behavior, there are only excuses. Capiche?
I guess we are saying the same thing?

Or maybe not.. :???:

No harm no foul different people have different opinions based on different experiences :thumbs2:
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Oldgringo
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Re: Never allowed to own a gun,vote,etc.

Post by Oldgringo »

bronco78 wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:
bronco78 wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:Our actions have consequences. A lesson that should be learned, beginning at a very early age, in the home. There are no excuses for bad manners or bad behavior.
True, and yet a very naive and simplistic view. Life is not that simple, no matter how much some want it to be. :tiphat:

There are no excuses for bad behavior :thumbs2: , but there are reasons, those unwilling to look at each event individually, and not as a one size fit all answer, in my opinion, truly do not understand what and how our laws are supposed to be applied.
Bronco, 'ol buddy, I reckon I appreciate what you're trying to do as a member of our armed services in a winless environment. :patriot:

I may be a lot of things, naive and simple ain't two of them. There are no excuses or reasons for bad behavior, there are only excuses. Capiche?
I guess we are saying the same thing?

Or maybe not.. :???:

No harm no foul different people have different opinions based on different experiences :thumbs2:
No harm, no foul. Stay safe. :patriot:
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Re: Never allowed to own a gun,vote,etc.

Post by JALLEN »

I was exposed to the idea, in my youth, that there is always a disadvantage in messing up. Sometimes more than one disadvantage. Parents need to do a better job of explaining the "facts of life" to their offspring. There are somethings you just don't do.

Felonies are intentional crimes, not accidental "oopsies." There may be excuses and there may be reasons but none of them sufficient to justify or excuse the conduct society has declared impermissible. I see no reason why a person who has demonstrated an inability or unwillingness to comply with the law, serious law, ought to be trusted with a firearm. My flying instructor looked for "the habitual exercise of sound judgment." What a concept!

I have no problem with felons not voting either. In Texas, they can always vote after they're dead, or so I am given to understand. ;-)

That story about the friend making the loan then getting charged with embezzlement is a sanitized version of it, I will wager, the way the felon wished it would have happened rather than the whole story. If not, she is too stupid to own a gun.... IMnotalwayssoHO, of course.
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Re: Never allowed to own a gun,vote,etc.

Post by RPBrown »

As I stated in a previous post, I have a nephew that has gone through all of this.

I do not agree that some felons shouldnt be able to get their rights back. My nephew was 17 and was at the mall with his girlfriend. When they went to leave his car wouldn't start so they called his girlfriends brother to come and pick them up which he did. On the way home they were stopped, the car was searched and they found some drugs under the drivers seat. They arrested all of them and charged with a felony. Even though the driver told the LEO and the DA that the other 2 were not involved they still prossocuted and won. He served 11 months of a 2 year snetance and finished his parole but now his life will always be tagged. Hard for him to get a job with taht on his record.

So, no, I dont agree. There are too many unjust cases that a DA wanting to make a name for himself will prosocute.
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Re: Never allowed to own a gun,vote,etc.

Post by speedsix »

...all felons aren't evil and a lot committed felonies out of ignorance...we who made it our "thing" learn the law about CHL and practice it professionally...a lot of folks don't live that way...and don't know enough law to keep out of trouble...
...in an ideal world, the LEOs, CA , DA, and judges and juries would all understand the laws well...judge each case as to whether or not the accused understood and intended to break the law, and deal justice tempered with mercy...that seldom happens...so a "good" citizen who messes up pays bigtime...and an evil professional felon gets plead down to a misdemeanor because he snitches on someone...our system's not perfect...but it's better'n most...
...having been raised on the flexible end of a switch, I'd say my sense of right and wrong is more finely tuned than someone who was good while growing up...so it goes back to the home and the parents...if they don't learn it right...they'll get it wrong...
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Re: Never allowed to own a gun,vote,etc.

Post by jimlongley »

JALLEN wrote:That story about the friend making the loan then getting charged with embezzlement is a sanitized version of it, I will wager, the way the felon wished it would have happened rather than the whole story. If not, she is too stupid to own a gun.... IMnotalwayssoHO, of course.
Well, it's the truncated version anyway, the friend has been such since 1964 and has always been just a little too trusting. The situation is hard to describe in short, but my wife and I knew this person independently of each other since back in those days and that such a thing could happen to her came as no surprise. We were one of the first calls made when the investigation, indictments, and arrests started, and she was up in NY State and us down here in TX. There is indeed a lot more, but my description stands on its own: A successful if somewhat naive independent business woman who would give a friend the benefit of the doubt got taken in by a very old scheme and when the original schemer got caught, she deflected the blame.

Initially we couldn't believe that she had fallen for the scheme, but with facts that I didn't present here, and knowledge of the other person's activities and issues, it became apparent to us that she had been caught in a very tangled web knitted by a scheming spider who does not deserve the kind of consideration she was given. There were drugs involved, with the original criminal embezzling to cover losses in both legitimate business and drug dealing, and nobody that I know would have anticipated that SHE would have been involved in such thing, much less our friend.

Actually, the original criminal was caught in a drug sting, and the embezzlement had not been discovered. She revealed it as part of a plea, and presented it, right from the start, as our friend's plan, and even tried to implicate her in the drug deals. Alibis and tests showed that our friend could not have been directly involved in any drug transactions or use, so all of her charges were related to the money laundering scheme.

Yes, lots more to the story, and I am sure that there is much I don't know, but I remain confident that my friend was an innocent victim of her own trusting nature.

BTW, we were asked to provide false testimony for our friend, and resisted the temptation. Our rights are just too important to us to lose them that way, even if it would have been hard to prove. Our friend was desperate by then, and grasping at anything to try to save herself, and her daughter who was merely her business partner and had absolutely no involvement at all.

Ironically, another couple of months and the "loan" would have been repaid and the involvement would have been much harder to prove.
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Re: Never allowed to own a gun,vote,etc.

Post by dukalmighty »

I have an acquaintance on the internet I have talked to,she grew up in a situation where the whole family was involved in criminal activity,and she is a convicted felon.She can't own a firearm,but something she said makes me believe there is definitely a huge difference between normal people,and people with a criminal mind.
When we think about owning a firearm we think about Shooting Ranges, Conceal Carry options,gun safety, etc.When she thinks about having a gun she thinks about which Jewelry store has the nicest stuff and how she would rob it.This is somebody that has changed her life around and has her own business today,but her thinking is still messed up from her upbringing.She also knows that even if the law allowed her to own a gun,she wouldn't because of her thought process
It is said that if you line up all the cars in the world end-to-end, someone would be stupid enough to try to pass them
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