Salesman changed his mind?

[txinvestigator]

Telling him that he is lucky he was not shot is tantamount to a threat, which IS illegal.

Not sure how you figure that I threatened him. In my opinion, he is lucky that he has not been shot. I was just giving him advise as not to be opening someones door, screen, storm, or otherwise. Mine or anyone elses.

I would hope he learned from this before someone thinks he is breaking in and does shoot him.

As far as a percieved threat, doorbell only, it stays holstered. Opening storm door it gets unholstered. It may not have appeared to be a threat, but I was not going to give up the extra time to unholster if he started in through the front door.

Not one time was I rude to the young man. Just gave him some advise. He even thanked me for the warning.

Would I do anything differantly? Maybe, maybe not. I am not paranoid, but I am prepaired and will remain so.[/quote]

I knew you would disagree and be defensive. I know I will not change your mind, my comments were actually for people reading these forums to give them an alternative thought of action.

[RPBrown]

Telling him that he is lucky he was not shot is tantamount to a threat, which IS illegal.

Not sure how you figure that I threatened him. In my opinion, he is lucky that he has not been shot. I was just giving him advise as not to be opening someones door, screen, storm, or otherwise. Mine or anyone elses.

I would hope he learned from this before someone thinks he is breaking in and does shoot him.

As far as a percieved threat, doorbell only, it stays holstered. Opening storm door it gets unholstered. It may not have appeared to be a threat, but I was not going to give up the extra time to unholster if he started in through the front door.

Not one time was I rude to the young man. Just gave him some advise. He even thanked me for the warning.

Would I do anything differantly? Maybe, maybe not. I am not paranoid, but I am prepaired and will remain so.

I knew you would disagree and be defensive. I know I will not change your mind, my comments were actually for people reading these forums to give them an alternative thought of action.[/quote]

Not disagreeing nor being defensive, just want to know how what I did or said was or could be concieved as illegal. You still didn't answer that question.

I like most here would like to learn. As I stated before, Would I do the same thing, maybe, maybe not. But if all that is seen is your opinion without answering the question, I cann't learn from that as its just your opinion.

I am open to

[Venus Pax]

Perhaps the storm door is a regional thing.
Growing up, we opened storm doors to knock on the primary door IF the primary door was shut. It gave the resident a better chance of hearing the knock.
If the storm door was shut and the primary door was open (people I know tend to do this), then you only knock at the storm door.
Did that make sense?

I don't see where opening a storm door when the primary is shut could be considered B&E, but that's the way I view it.

When I was a little girl visiting my grandmother in rural Louisiana, her friends would get angry with me when I would lock her doors. This kept them from walking right in her house to visit. They thought I was a very rude little girl for doing this. It wasn't my intention, but my primary residence at the time was rather crime-ridden. Failure to lock doors was considered stupid, not rude.

Personally, I don't even answer the door; I usually holler at them through the door to go away. (I holler, "We aren't interested. Please leave.") It usually works. No gun required thus far.

[stevie_d_64]

Well if there is no specific B&E in the Texas code, I vaguely recall the individual had some funny notations of buguralical crimes he had committed that were publically available on that website...

But thats beside the point, the guy came and solicited us at a late hour, and for a service I thought was extremely campy and un-necessary, the curb is city owned and out of my general perviance to maintain, other than trim the grass over it...

What is actually kinda funny, is all the lawn care business cards we get stuck, wedged in between the side of the house and the sticky back of the NO SOLICITING sign...That works real well for them because I believe they do not habla very well...So we are considering finding one that does habla...

For what its worth, I do not think any of us are quick to the gun at the sound of a knock or a doorbell...Whatever has been said or misinterpreted...

[ScubaSigGuy]

RP,

I was not trying to be overly critical of your actions. Nor am I picking on you. Like I said I was just sharing my opinion. The threat reference comes from the fact that you said:

"I then told him how lucky he was that he wasn't shot. I informed him its not a good idea toopen someone's door without permission. Could be taken as B & E with probable cause. "

Now it depends on your actual words, and I am not a lawyer but if he had left, and called the police recanting the incident it could be deemed assault. Assault can be legally defined as a verbal threat. I am not certain but I think that the fact that you were holding a firearm at the time, in plain view might, qualify as aggrivated assault if the wrong person is doing the interpretation. At the very least, if the wrong officer shows up to ask questions it could cause you a lot more grief than you would like to deal with.

I was not in your shoes, so I have the luxury of examining your actions from my desk, which is a pretty comfortable place to do so. I am fairly certain how I woul have reacted and that is why I shared my opinion. For me, revealing that I am carrying will not happen unless I intend to pull the trigger. But that's just me. I'm saying not to be vigilant.

[9mmGuy]

Not taking sides, but how could he be charged with assault if its on his property? I mean the guy was on his porch. one quick step and the man could have been in his house. Then again RPBrown would if that was a LEO in plain clothes trying to ask you about something that was going on your neighborhood...

[ScubaSigGuy]

Not taking sides, but how could he be charged with assault if its on his property?

I don't think there is a side to take... it's not like that. The definition of assault can be a verbal threat. It doesn't matter who's property you are on. It's all hypothetical because it didn't happen. I just think that I wouldn't chance having a problem with that.

[Stupid]

You both were lucky.

If you read enough "self-defense" story, you will see most them were simply because "the owner opened the door."

DO NOT OPEN that door. Over the years, i have established some stupid rules. All friends must call before they come over. We do not accept any mail, UPS, Fedex at my home address or at my door. Anybody who knocks on our door will be greeted with guns ready in our hands - we do not open our door unless they are: policeman and/or apartment maintenance.

No, I am not paranoid. Since all my friends will call (sometimes they call while they are at my door/downstairs), no mail/package is delivered to the door, can you tell me who else would be knocking at our door???

[KBCraig]

Perhaps the storm door is a regional thing.

It is. And since you mentioned Louisiana, I recall a story reported as case law in that state.

"Sleeping porches" are common in older parts of the South. I certainly slept many nights on screened in porches growing up in Arkansas, and I'm only 43.

Substitute "screen door" for "storm door".

Opening that screen door to a screened in porch in Louisiana is just the same as opening the solid door to the dwelling. Texas might not share that case law, but my upbringing is that a door is a door. Screen, storm, glass, or solid. Doesn't matter. You don't open it without an invitation or permission. Doing so is an invasion of someone's home, even if it's a screen door on a porch.

Kevin

[RPBrown]

Okay, now that I have a lot of thought about the incident, heres as Paul Harvey would say the rest of the story.

Although I live in a pretty good neighborhood, there is a known drug house at the end of the street. Had this been one of the druggies at my house trying to gain entry OR, as I informed the young salesman, it had been that house that he had opened the door of, things could have gone very wrong.

There was no raised voices, harsh words, nor threats spoken. Just some friendly advice. As soon as I opened the door, I holstered up. That is when he actually saw my weapon.

IMHO there was no Threat or tantamount to a threat. If I was going to threaten or even make him think it was a threat, I would have said lucky I didn't shoot you.

[Ranger+P+]

In my experience's I have tried to live by the creed:

Devote your life to 3 things: Avoidance, Deterrence, De-Escalation

Granted, there are times when this creed goes out the window, but as a whole, if you think in this direction, it can work.

For those who have had to use our guns IDOL, these words are the first thing you hear when a situation pops in a bad direction.

[John]

Perhaps the storm door is a regional thing.
Growing up, we opened storm doors to knock on the primary door IF the primary door was shut. It gave the resident a better chance of hearing the knock.

I've always done this too. I can alsmost hear the spring creaking now.

[ScubaSigGuy]

In my experience's I have tried to live by the creed:

Devote your life to 3 things: Avoidance, Deterrence, De-Escalation

Granted, there are times when this creed goes out the window, but as a whole, if you think in this direction, it can work.

For those who have had to use our guns IDOL, these words are the first thing you hear when a situation pops in a bad direction.

Well said Ranger.

[dihappy]

This is exactly why i got a lockable, glass, storm door.

It ALWAYS remains locked, and if i ever want or need to open the main door i know the storm door is locked.

[TX Rancher]

If you feel safer with your gun in hand when you open the door, just hold it behind your back. I think tactically it's better if the potential bad guy doesn't know you're armed.

Also, when you open the door, only open it as far as required to carry on normal conversation, and brace it with your foot. It takes a fair amount of force to move a door you're bracing with your foot. Pushy salesman may put their hand on the door to edge it open, but they won't push hard. If they hit it hard in an attempt to force it, move to the side and shoot them. Then move to cover in case BG #2, 3, & 4 try to come through the door...