Women and .380 pistols

[74novaman]

My wife isn't a fan of pistols of any flavor. Even my little .22 is just a bit too much for her (she didn't grow up around guns at all).

That being said, she loves my lever gun in .357. I feed that thing .38s and she actually enjoys shooting it. Needless to say, it is her gun now, and is kept loaded up with .38s for her to use if the need arises.

[XinTX]

The MUCH better half loves her .380. But that's as her CCW. Before taking the CHL course, she tried a LOT of semis. She has little to no hand strength and the P238 was the one she could fully operate. She's tiny, so it fits her well.

But, for home defense, she has a .357 revolver that we keep loaded with 38 +P. Every time we go to the range she takes it. She likes it almost as much as her baby SIG. It's a cheapie old Llama. She had it when we met. Still shoots like a champ. She likes the trigger on it. I still need to get her to try the one on my Dan Wesson though.

[Jumping Frog]

The hands down favorite is a Commander length 1911 in .38 Super. Women love it!

Yeah, I'll bet that is a winner. I was also thinking if a woman didn't want to shoot .45 ACP, that a Browning Hi Power in 9mm would also be a soft shooter.

[The Annoyed Man]

Ironically, most people (men and women) find it easier to shoot a full-size 5" 1911.

Almost any .45 is easier for them. I only own one .380 now—a nearly 30 year old Colt Government model in mint condition—and I hate shooting it. The only reason I haven't sold it is that it's pretty to look at. Plus, it's my experience that .380s just aren't as reliable as pistols in other calibers. I don't know if that's just because they are harder to shoot well, or if it's a flaw in cartridge design. But it does seem to me that .380 pistols produce unpleasant recoil and noise far out of proportion to the actual effectiveness of the cartridge. I'm not a fan.

[Heartland Patriot]

I think the main problem is when women conceal carry they have a much harder time concealing a full sub compact like a glock 26 or xd sub then men

I get that, but my whole rant was started by the fact someone sold an elderly couple (in their 70s) on the idea that her first and only handgun for defense around the house (not concealed carry) should be a small .380.

She couldn't rack the slide, could barely pull the trigger, and had trouble getting rounds on paper from 5 yards away. I'm not sure an easier to use gun would have fixed all that, but it certainly wouldn't have hurt her chances.

Just doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe gun stores in my area had too many Bersas on hand last few months so they've been pushing them hard, I don't know.

I believe that user "Justme" is female, but other than that its been all male input in this thread. I'm curious if our female members think I'm way off base here, or what their thoughts on good pistols for women/how they'd prefer to learn, etc.

I agree that the slide on the Bersa takes a little effort to hand cycle; I showed my wife how to use both hands at the same time to rack it. However, my wife picked out the Bersa herself. I hadn't really heard much about them before we went to the gun store that day. She liked how it fit her hand and had trouble getting a good grip on many autos with bigger grips. But she also knew enough to tell the guy at the gun store that she was worried about a little gun jumping in her hand (or words to that effect). I admit she had fired my old Ruger P89 a few times, though not many, so I wouldn't call her a "gun person". I do agree that it probably isn't the best pistol to sell to an elderly couple with limited knowledge of firearms and not a lot of arm strength.

[WildBill]

Plus, it's my experience that .380s just aren't as reliable as pistols in other calibers. I don't know if that's just because they are harder to shoot well, or if it's a flaw in cartridge design. But it does seem to me that .380 pistols produce unpleasant recoil and noise far out of proportion to the actual effectiveness of the cartridge. I'm not a fan.

It may be that the short length vs larger diameter ratio makes it harder to feed reliability. Or could be to the blowback design. OTOH, I have a AT-380 Sphinx, which is a blowback design that is very reliable. It manufactured in Switzerland is machined better than most 380s. It has a double stack magazine so the grip is wider than most 380s and it is relatively large and heavy so the recoil is not bad. The trigger is very good for a DOA pistol.

[GEM-Texas]

Most men think they are natural gunslingers and can teach the little lady.

Check out http://www.corneredcat.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - by my friend Kathy Jackson, it has a wealth of advice on guns for womens. It punctures the cliches and gives excellent recommendations.

In fact, if one really wants to do right by women (or men) take advantage of excellent training opportunities in TX - like http://www.krtraining.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Dallas and Houston have good folks also.

There is more to gun carrying than equipment discussions.

[Oldgringo]

Plus, it's my experience that .380s just aren't as reliable as pistols in other calibers. I don't know if that's just because they are harder to shoot well, or if it's a flaw in cartridge design. But it does seem to me that .380 pistols produce unpleasant recoil and noise far out of proportion to the actual effectiveness of the cartridge. I'm not a fan.

It may be that the short length vs larger diameter ratio makes it harder to feed reliability. Or could be to the blowback design. OTOH, I have a AT-380 Sphinx, which is a blowback design that is very reliable. It manufactured in Switzerland is machined better than most 380s. It has a double stack magazine so the grip is wider than most 380s and it is relatively large and heavy so the recoil is not bad. The trigger is very good for a DOA pistol.

I have a Stainless Sig P230 that is pretty cool.

[WildBill]

Plus, it's my experience that .380s just aren't as reliable as pistols in other calibers. I don't know if that's just because they are harder to shoot well, or if it's a flaw in cartridge design. But it does seem to me that .380 pistols produce unpleasant recoil and noise far out of proportion to the actual effectiveness of the cartridge. I'm not a fan.

It may be that the short length vs larger diameter ratio makes it harder to feed reliability. Or could be to the blowback design. OTOH, I have a AT-380 Sphinx, which is a blowback design that is very reliable. It manufactured in Switzerland is machined better than most 380s. It has a double stack magazine so the grip is wider than most 380s and it is relatively large and heavy so the recoil is not bad. The trigger is very good for a DOA pistol.

I have a Stainless Sig P230 that is pretty cool.

I have a friend who has one. As I stated in another post, I like it. It is relatively easy to shoot, has a decent trigger and not too finicky with ammo. The profile is very thin, which makes for good concealment, but the narrow grip makes the recoil a little sharp.

[JustMe]

I believe that user "Justme" is female, but other than that its been all male input in this thread. I'm curious if our female members think I'm way off base here, or what their thoughts on good pistols for women/how they'd prefer to learn, etc.

Correct!! And NO, you are NOT off-base with this. I think part of the biggest problem is that there are so many non-gun-enlightened men(NOT like the men on here who get it!) who actually work at the places that most women would first go to buy a gun. It takes a very confident woman to walk into a "gun store"--and you won't find that in most novice gun buyers. They are going to go to the chain sporting goods stores where the "salesman" may not even be old enough to buy his own gun! I have run into this myself when I went to a local place. Not only did the kid working try to sell me a used gun as new(!), but another customer in the store inserted himself into the discussion--tried to tell me that I just need to get a small revolver to put in my purse--because I could just shoot it through my purse. I'm still trying to figure out how I would know what my sight picture is if I just stick my hand in my purse and shoot through the purse!

But then that is another rant I have--WHY so many think that a woman should start with a revolver because it is easier to understand & operate! Have you ever looked at the equipment/appliances in todays kitchens? They are more complicated than a gun! And most of us can even drive! AnyWay!!

Some women I will start with a .22 pistol---those who are older(like the 85 y/o woman the other day!) or the very young--or those who have expressed nervousness about picking up the gun, etc. But then I move them up to the 9mm as soon as they show that they have a grasp of the basics & safety. Some it takes a few times--others--only 1 or 2 mags of 22 and they are ready to move.

It's just that guns don't come in a 1 size fits all--for men or women. But no one would think of telling a man that he "really should have"-when talking about ability to handle it. I have said it before & will again--Guns are like shoes and certain pieces of underwear--if they don't fit you-they can make you miserable! Too many women have been introduced to the wrong size-and therefore don't get it!

Like I said earlier--I am not talking about the men on this forum! I know that you are all intelligent, enlightened gentlemen who would never dream of exhibiting such bad behavior!

[WildBill]

Sometimes I will stop by the gun counter and look, but I would never accept the advice of the guy behind the counter on what gun to buy. I will do research on the internet, read magazine reviews and by talking to people with actual experience.

One technique that I use for determining their product knowledge is by asking questions which I know the answer. I do this with gun salesmen as well as electronics, computers and applicances sales people.

[JustMe]

One technique that I use for determining their product knowledge is by asking questions which I know the answer. I do this with gun salesmen as well as electronics, computers and applicances sales people.

I do the same thing!!! Usually I will just say thank you and go on about my business--BUT-there have been those occasions(not with guns, but other things) when I had to "school" them on the facts! That has happened when there was just a little bit too much attitude(!) and they just pushed the wrong button! Problem is, as I have gotten older--that seems to be happening more! I HATE being treated like the old grandma I am--

[The Annoyed Man]

Most men think they are natural gunslingers and can teach the little lady.

The core of my Basic Handgun student clientele are women who don't mind being taught by a man, as long as he treats them like the intelligent adults that they are, and whose goal it is to empower them and not to treat them like dependent children.

[jimlongley]

My bride started with my .22, and then my .45ACP 1911, and after trying several, decided on her PPKS, but really prefers (my) her XD9. Lately she has decided to sell/trade her PPKS and get a P238 because it is easier to operate and it fits her hand comfortably.

We were supposed to go to the Market Hall gun show this morning to accomplish this, but life and a lazy day got in the way so far.

[jimlongley]

Sometimes I will stop by the gun counter and look, but I would never accept the advice of the guy behind the counter on what gun to buy. I will do research on the internet, read magazine reviews and by talking to people with actual experience.

One technique that I use for determining their product knowledge is by asking questions which I know the answer. I do this with gun salesmen as well as electronics, computers and applicances sales people.

Was that you, Bill? Did I pass?

There are times I really hate to have that kind of test pulled on me. The other day I had a customer who was bound and determined that he knew more than me about the appliances he was asking about, and some of his questions bordered on stupid, if not downright inane. Even worse was his tendency to anticipate my answer, interrupt before I had it complete, and reflect an incorrect answer back on me as if that was what I was going to say. I hope that wasn't you Bill, I told the guy he was too dumb to shop at Home Depot, he needed to go to Lowe's.