57Coastie wrote:I have to see if I can get my young granddaughter, so much computer-smarter than me, to program my computer to automatically give Andy an "I Agree" for every one of his postings.
This guy knows his weapons, how to care for them, how to use them, when to use them, and when to not use them.
You're too kind - thanks. I've just made a lot of mistakes, and sometimes even learned from them
Not at all Andy. It takes a real man to admit his mistakes, not blame something or someone else, and learn from them.
An overgeneralization to be sure, but I think it is reasonable to expect 4-5 MOA from a wide variety of old milsurp items. If you are grossly outside of that accuracy range (and you are), it is worthwhile to troubleshoot and solve issues like muzzle crowns, copper fouling, etc. If the obvious and inexpensive fixes don't resolve the accuracy problem, then I'd just sell the gun and get a different one. Not worth investing much time or money in fixing a $100 gun when there are millions of them out there.
It dawned on me as I started to clean the thing a little while ago that I had never done anything more than run a lightly oiled patch through it (never got to take it to the range before). Now that I am scrubbing, WOW! is it filthy. I've already run some plain old bore solvent through it, about 6 or 7 patches...full grimy to lightly grimy. Then I switched to scrubbing with a bronze brush, and following each set of three passes with a patch...full grimy. In fact, after the first run of bore solvent patches, the bore turned what I can only describe as "fuzzy". Never seen that before, though the most I've been able to afford to put through a firearm in one session is about 200+ rounds. Still, this thing is MUCH more disgusting than my AK. On a whim, I switched to Break-Free CLP and it seems to be pulling a lot of the filth out, rotating between brushing and patching...all total about a dozen patches now with no sign of getting clean...except the "fuzziness" has diminished somewhat. I'll post a total count of patches when it gets reasonably clean. I'm no fanatic, I'll accept light gray!
(Edit to add: At first, I could barely push a patch through and now it seems "normal". I hope that's a good sign.)
Last edited by Heartland Patriot on Fri May 11, 2012 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jumping Frog wrote:An overgeneralization to be sure, but I think it is reasonable to expect 4-5 MOA from a wide variety of old milsurp items. If you are grossly outside of that accuracy range (and you are), it is worthwhile to troubleshoot and solve issues like muzzle crowns, copper fouling, etc. If the obvious and inexpensive fixes don't resolve the accuracy problem, then I'd just sell the gun and get a different one. Not worth investing much time or money in fixing a $100 gun when there are millions of them out there.
On the note of, if the obvious and inexpensive doesn't fix it, where is a good source of Mosin-Nagants? I got mine at Cabelas when they had the last crateload of them for sale. And now they are ALL gone.
Heartland Patriot wrote:It dawned on me as I started to clean the thing a little while ago that I had never done anything more than run a lightly oiled patch through it (never got to take it to the range before). Now that I am scrubbing, WOW! is it filthy. I've already run some plain old bore solvent through it, about 6 or 7 patches...full grimy to lightly grimy. Then I switched to scrubbing with a bronze brush, and following each set of three passes with a patch...full grimy. In fact, after the first run of bore solvent patches, the bore turned what I can only describe as "fuzzy". Never seen that before, though the most I've been able to afford to put through a firearm in one session is about 200+ rounds. Still, this thing is MUCH more disgusting than my AK. On a whim, I switched to Break-Free CLP and it seems to be pulling a lot of the filth out, rotating between brushing and patching...all total about a dozen patches now with no sign of getting clean...except the "fuzziness" has diminished somewhat. I'll post a total count of patches when it gets reasonably clean. I'm no fanatic, I'll accept light gray!
(Edit to add: At first, I could barely push a patch through and now it seems "normal". I hope that's a good sign.)
Seriously, I could have written the exact same story about my M44.....After lots and lots of patches with Hoppes Cooper Solvent including an overnight soak and several soakings with Gunslick, Mine is smooth when you run a patch in it and the lands on the rifling are bright. However, I can still brush it and the patch following the brushing will be cruddy. I believe that the grooves are still holding 50+ years of crud. I am going to try the Sweets I bought today over the weekend.
It seemed to shoot much better the third range trip after some of the more serious cleaning, but I'd like to get it chemically as clean as practical and see how it shoots.
Well, after some Hoppes #9, a lot of brushing, some more Break-Free, some more brushing, and a grand total of 32 patches, it looks pretty good. The last two patches were very light gray. Now, there was ONE more little item I discovered (and I'm kicking myself for not finding earlier)...the screws for the rear tang and the magazine assembly underneath were both loose...VERY loose, almost free-spin loose. The whole action actually wobbled in the stock. Not sure what would have happened if one came out at the range, but I'd bet it wouldn't have been very good. :
As it stands now, I can't wait to get another box of soft-points and get back to the range, and give it a try.
Heartland Patriot wrote:It dawned on me as I started to clean the thing a little while ago that I had never done anything more than run a lightly oiled patch through it (never got to take it to the range before). Now that I am scrubbing, WOW! is it filthy. I've already run some plain old bore solvent through it, about 6 or 7 patches...full grimy to lightly grimy. Then I switched to scrubbing with a bronze brush, and following each set of three passes with a patch...full grimy. In fact, after the first run of bore solvent patches, the bore turned what I can only describe as "fuzzy". Never seen that before, though the most I've been able to afford to put through a firearm in one session is about 200+ rounds. Still, this thing is MUCH more disgusting than my AK. On a whim, I switched to Break-Free CLP and it seems to be pulling a lot of the filth out, rotating between brushing and patching...all total about a dozen patches now with no sign of getting clean...except the "fuzziness" has diminished somewhat. I'll post a total count of patches when it gets reasonably clean. I'm no fanatic, I'll accept light gray!
(Edit to add: At first, I could barely push a patch through and now it seems "normal". I hope that's a good sign.)
Seriously, I could have written the exact same story about my M44.....After lots and lots of patches with Hoppes Cooper Solvent including an overnight soak and several soakings with Gunslick, Mine is smooth when you run a patch in it and the lands on the rifling are bright. However, I can still brush it and the patch following the brushing will be cruddy. I believe that the grooves are still holding 50+ years of crud. I am going to try the Sweets I bought today over the weekend.
It seemed to shoot much better the third range trip after some of the more serious cleaning, but I'd like to get it chemically as clean as practical and see how it shoots.
I'll have to acquire some Sweets next run to the gunstore...and I'll bet I'll be in the same boat as you: its going to take several times to get all the filth out of it...though, in all fairness, it probably took a bit longer to put it all in there.
Once you get the bore where you want it, you might turn your attention to that trigger. I bought one of the Huber Triggers and it really made a difference on my group sizes, reducing them by roughly 50%.
The trigger is an easy swap out, and does not require any smithing or inletting. When you want to return your Mosin to original condition, you simply swap the original trigger back in. Replacement takes only a few minutes.
Timney makes a good trigger for it as well, but 1) it's more expensive, and 2) it comes with an 'enhanced safety'. While this safety is a nice feature it means doing a little stock inletting - something you might not want to do if you want to be able to maintain the original configuration of your gun.
Heartland Patriot wrote:Well, after some Hoppes #9, a lot of brushing, some more Break-Free, some more brushing, and a grand total of 32 patches, it looks pretty good. The last two patches were very light gray. Now, there was ONE more little item I discovered (and I'm kicking myself for not finding earlier)...the screws for the rear tang and the magazine assembly underneath were both loose...VERY loose, almost free-spin loose. The whole action actually wobbled in the stock. Not sure what would have happened if one came out at the range, but I'd bet it wouldn't have been very good. :
As it stands now, I can't wait to get another box of soft-points and get back to the range, and give it a try.
AIM surplus had a pretty good deal on PPU SP's. I think they were $13-14 a box. I bought 5 last time and 4 boxes came sealed in a heavy plastic bag. Next time at the range run some rounds through it and run some patches down the barrel while it is still warm and you can bust a lot of crud out of then.
Well, I finally got to take the M-N back to the range today. Originally, neither my friend nor I could keep it anywhere "on the paper" with any degree of knowing where the round might go. In other words, they were all over the place. While scrubbing the filth out of it after the last session, I discovered the screws were LOOSE and got them tightened down. Today, I put another 20 rounds through it. The results were MUCH better, at least compared to the first session. Today, I was able to keep almost all of them on a 12x12 inch target at 50 yards. The couple that weren't on the paper were close to the edge, but just off of it. Several rounds were shot into groups in about a 4x4 inch area, but then there would be a flier out of the five (or I pulled it, maybe) that would open that group WAY up. I'm about to give it another scrubbing and see how it looks after 20 new rounds went through. BTW, I'm ONLY shooting PPU 150 grain BTSP ammo due to the range rules (no FMJ). On the bright side, the rifle FUNCTIONS great and makes a nice big bang. If nothing else, it is FUN!
AndyC wrote:Sounds a lot better already - probably more due to tightening the action-screws, I'd bet.
Anyway, just curious how you're shooting that old flamethrower - are you using it benched over sandbags?
Sorry, I did leave that out...yes, I was shooting it from a seated position, they have wooden rests with small sandbags. I wish I could get some pics of it from the side when it fires...they probably look pretty cool.
