steel case what???

[mossytxn]

So the range nearest to me now has a sign barring steel cased ammo. The sign says something to the effect of "ask us why and we'll explain."

Knowing the answer anyway, I asked.

So I point to the sign and say "So the guys that collect your brass don't like to sort out steel huh?" The reply caught me off guard. "Well it's partly that and partly that the bullets in steel case ammo are steel jacketed. All that steel will eventually breakdown our backstop and make us replace it more often and we don't want to raise prices."

Say what??? I get it, it must be too difficult to get a big magnet when sweeping the brass. But steel jacketed pistol ammo? For real?

It should not be too hard to figure out the range if you look at my profile, but I'm not naming names.

[WildBill]

So the range nearest to me now has a sign barring steel cased ammo. The sign says something to the effect of "ask us why and we'll explain."

Knowing the answer anyway, I asked.

So I point to the sign and say "So the guys that collect your brass don't like to sort out steel huh?" The reply caught me off guard. "Well it's partly that and partly that the bullets in steel case ammo are steel jacketed. All that steel will eventually breakdown our backstop and make us replace it more often and we don't want to raise prices."

Say what??? I get it, it must be too difficult to get a big magnet when sweeping the brass. But steel jacketed pistol ammo? For real?

It should not be too hard to figure out the range if you look at my profile, but I'm not naming names.

It's sounds like the range owner and employees need some education.

[C-dub]

Me too. I don't know too much about ammunition yet, but I'm guessing that handgun ammo, even with steel cases, is not steel jacketed, while rifle ammo is?

[Keith B]

Not steel jackets, but steel in the bullet core. Apparently some of the easter-block ammo (Wolf, Brown Bear, etc.) does not have true lead cores, but a composite that must contain steel. I have talked to 3-4 different ranges and they have actually seen sparks as it hit the plates when some of it is being shot. They also said they are seeing evidence of dimples on the plates at the end of the range that was not present until a lot of the stuff started being shot.

[03Lightningrocks]

I bet he is talking about garland public shooting range. A couple years back they told me that the steel ammo was doing damage to the dirt berms(sp). At that time the rule was simply that all rifle ammo had to be hollow point or soft point. I guess they decided that it was too hard distinguishing between the two so they solved the problem by banning the case instead. It is real obvious when steel cases are flying around. It is hard to tell if the ammo is hollow point/soft point without actually checking the rounds before a person fires them. About the same time frame, I was told they have to pay to get rid of the steel cases. I have no idea if any of the reasons are valid. Validity really doesn't matter anyway...lol. It is their playground. I have little choice other than to play by their rules.


I bet Keith is talking about bullet trap. They told me almost exactly what he posted.

I don't see any reason we should not mention names. We aren't slandering anyone to discuss the rules at different ranges. Actually, you should say who it is so others don't waste time by going to the place with the wrong ammo.


Edit to add. I just read the op again. I want to change my bet to bullet trap for him also...lol.

I am now hoping Garland hasn't banned the Steel case. I have quite a bit of the steel case soft point and hollow point wolf ammo I like to shoot at garland.

[Keith B]

I bet he is talking about garland public shooting range. A couple years back they told me that the steel ammo was doing damage to the dirt berms(sp). At that time the rule was simply that all rifle ammo had to be hollow point or soft point. I guess they decided that it was too hard distinguishing between the two so they solved the problem by banning the case instead. It is real obvious when steel cases are flying around. It is hard to tell if the ammo is hollow point/soft point without actually checking the rounds before a person fires them. About the same time frame, I was told they have to pay to get rid of the steel cases. I have no idea if any of the reasons are valid. Validity really doesn't matter anyway...lol. It is their playground. I have little choice other than to play by their rules.


I bet Keith is talking about bullet trap. They told me almost exactly what he posted.

I don't see any reason we should not mention names. We aren't slandering anyone to discuss the rules at different ranges.


Edit to add. I just read the op again. I want to change my bet to bullet trap for him also...lol.

I am now oping Garland hasn't banned the case. I have quite a bit of the steel case soft point and hollow point wolf ammo I like to shoot at garland.

Yes, Bullet Trap is one, but I have heard the same story from a two indoor ranges in Missouri and one in California.

Just put a magnet to your steel cased ammo bullet and see if it wants to attract. If you have a bullet puller, then maybe you can more solidly confirm.

[jimlongley]

Not steel jackets, but steel in the bullet core. Apparently some of the easter-block ammo (Wolf, Brown Bear, etc.) does not have true lead cores, but a composite that must contain steel. I have talked to 3-4 different ranges and they have actually seen sparks as it hit the plates when some of it is being shot. They also said they are seeing evidence of dimples on the plates at the end of the range that was not present until a lot of the stuff started being shot.

Although the movies make too big a deal of it, I have seen sparks fly when (hard) cast lead bullets, that I cast myself so I knew they didn't contain any steel, make sparks. All you need to make sparks is mechanical energy, not chemical, the bullet impacting a plate at the right angle and breaking up will heat some of the resulting particles to the level where they could be considered sparks. And I have dimpled plates with lead bullets too, once again the transfer of energy accomplishes everything, not the hardness of the projectile, particularly if the target has been pretty well worked over. I have also seen a shotgun slug put a bad enough dent in a pepper popper that it was rendered unsuitable for use with shot.

[CEOofEVIL]

There is much confusion among shooters regarding this topic. I was confused about it too until I took it upon myself to do a little experiment and some research.

It's not that the jacket is made entirely of steel, or that the bullets have steel cores. Rather, it's that the bullets themselves are copper washed steel jackets. Many of the overseas manufacturers of steel cased ammo, in an effort to knock down their production costs, use a thin steel jacket that is plated/washed with copper. Why? Copper is expensive and cutting the amount of it that is needed in a jacket helps reduce their cost. The core remains lead. Honestly, some indoor ranges do NOT understand this concept and they think that the core of the bullet is indeed steel, and not lead. It's often times fruitless to try and explain this to them...

On the other hand, the steel contained in the jacket of the bullet (while mild and thin) CAN lead to an increase in sparking against a backstop/bullet trap/whatever. When I lived in El Paso, the EPCC LE Academy indoor range allowed the use of steel cased ammo for sometime. 2nd to the last range trip I made there, the guy at the front desk said explained that they had a small fire start in the backstop from the sparking of these bullets hitting it. Sadly, the wife and I brought over 400 rounds of the stuff to shoot that day. He had already stamped our range cards, and felt bad and made us SWEAR that if the stuff started sparking too much to cease use and to pay extra attention for any smoke/fire at the end of the range, and informed us to not bring it again (in a very polite and professional manner). Sure enough, the rounds did spark against the backstop more (thankfully no fires were had).

There is a MASSIVE difference between steel cored ammo and bi-metal jacketed steel cased ammo. Bi-metal jacketed steel case ammo does not have any intrinsic armor piercing properties compared to normal full copper jacketed bullets. Now, my sample of ammunition that I tested was only of the "Monarch" brand of ammunition that Academy sells. The pistol ammo is made by Barnaul, and I believe the rifle ammo is produced by Prvi Partizan. Some manufacturers might use different materials - some might have a thicker copper washing, some might have thinker steel, some might not have any steel, etc. If you want some pictures of what the bullets look like bisected and a (Small and incomplete analysis/write up) check out my post Here. I realize these methods are not exactly scientific. I do plan on picking up different brands of steel cased ammo and 'testing' them as well (more Monarch in .223, Brown Bear, Wolf, etc.) to further satisfy my curiosity.

At any rate, the problem with the magnet test many ranges do is that it only detects if there is steel somewhere in the bullet - it doesn't tell you where it is. In the linked write up above, I neglected to mention that while bi-metal jacketed bullets aren't going to pierce a backstop, since they may spark more on impact the chance of fire is greater. Think of all the particles of cardboard and paper that can build up inside of an indoor range, so it's (unfortunately) possible for a small fire to occur.

[mossytxn]

Ok, I'll sort of buy the Bi-Metal description, but I still fail to see how that is strong enough to damage their backstop any faster than normal copper jacketed bullets.

Yes, it is Bullet Trap in Plano.

I still say it is because they don't want to sort the brass.

[03Lightningrocks]

Ok, I'll sort of buy the Bi-Metal description, but I still fail to see how that is strong enough to damage their backstop any faster than normal copper jacketed bullets.

Yes, it is Bullet Trap in Plano.

I still say it is because they don't want to sort the brass.

It really isn't hard to sort the steel casings from the brass. They just run a long magnet attached to a stick across the brass and all the steel jumps out and sticks to the magnet. They have a magnet like that at Garland Public Shooting Range. I have used it to clean up my own pile of steel casings and throw them away. The fellers at Garland claimed they couldn't put the steel casings in the normal trash due to some kind of EPA restrictions at the dump. Don't ask me why or what, I am just repeating what the range officers told me as they complained about my rather large pile.


Another "range officer story" from Bullet Trap. I made the comment about how much money a person could make selling all that brass laying all over the place. He told me they don't sell the brass because of liability concerns. Again... just forwarding a range officer story for why, where and what...he may or may not have been giving the story straight.

[WildBill]

Another "range officer story" from Bullet Trap. I made the comment about how much money a person could make selling all that brass laying all over the place. He told me they don't sell the brass because of liability concerns.

I would have more concerns about throwing it in the garbage than selling it to a recycler.

[03Lightningrocks]

Another "range officer story" from Bullet Trap. I made the comment about how much money a person could make selling all that brass laying all over the place. He told me they don't sell the brass because of liability concerns.

I would have more concerns about throwing it in the garbage than selling it to a recycler.

He was not speaking of a recycler. He and I were talking of selling the brass to customers for reloading. My appologies for not being specific. I suppose I made the mistake of assuming most folks would realize there is no liability in selling brass to a recycler. Forgot where I was posting at for a minute there. Thanks for making sure there would be no confusion.

[WildBill]

Another "range officer story" from Bullet Trap. I made the comment about how much money a person could make selling all that brass laying all over the place. He told me they don't sell the brass because of liability concerns.

I would have more concerns about throwing it in the garbage than selling it to a recycler.

He was not speaking of a recycler. He and I were talking of selling the brass to customers for reloading. My appologies for not being specific. I suppose I made the mistake of assuming most folks would realize there is no liability in selling brass to a recycler. Forgot where I was posting at for a minute there. Thanks for making sure there would be no confusion.

I really can't see much liability selling to reloaders either, but people have to be a bit paranoid about being sued. Although if a case were to prove defective it would be hard to trace it back to the range.

[03Lightningrocks]

IANAL...LOL... I am not sure if it is a real threat or not... I was stating what I was told by a friendly range officer at Bullet Trap.