These aren't mine, but I have a set just like them. They were purchased as a set customized by Master Gunsmith John Giles from Odessey, FL in the early 60s. He is now deceased, but he was considered to be one of the top five pistolsmiths in the country.
The three guns are: High Standard 22LR, Colt 1911 .45 ACP and Colt 1911 .38 Special.
The .38 Special 1911 is very rare. As I understand, Colt sold a gun kit to a very select group of master gunsmiths to manufacture .38 Spec Wadcutter guns on a 1911 frame. All three guns are extremely accurate and have the best triggers I have felt. A couple of years ago I did find some .38 wadcutters at a gun show. They worked great. I wish I had bought a few more boxes. Now I only shoot the .22LR because the others are made for handloads and I don't do that any more.
KAHR PM40/Hoffner IWB and S&W Mod 60/ Galco IWB
NRA Endowment Member, TSRA Life Member,100 Club Life Member,TFC Member
My Faith, My Gun and My Constitution: I cling to all three!
WildBill, I've read about those .38 Special 1911s...made for target competitions. If you did decide you wanted to shoot it again, AmmunitionToGo sells a couple of different brands of .38 Special wadcutters. I'm not an expert on wadcutters, but the ones from Remington on their website appear to be correct, with the bullet seated almost all the way into the case, so that its just about flush with the mouth. Anyway, VERY nice set you have there, that kind of custom work is not something that is seen much these days, for certain.
Heartland Patriot wrote:WildBill, I've read about those .38 Special 1911s...made for target competitions. If you did decide you wanted to shoot it again, AmmunitionToGo sells a couple of different brands of .38 Special wadcutters. I'm not an expert on wadcutters, but the ones from Remington on their website appear to be correct, with the bullet seated almost all the way into the case, so that its just about flush with the mouth. Anyway, VERY nice set you have there, that kind of custom work is not something that is seen much these days, for certain.
Thanks Pumaguy and Patriot. That is what I need - flush wadcutters. Back then, many of the well known pistolsmiths were highly ranked shooters so they learned alot about how well their guns really worked. Unfortunately I don't know much about Giles and his guns other than the little information on the internet.
When my dad bought these guns we lived on the West Coast. There was an excellent pistolsmith [and champion shooter] named Bob Chow who lived in San Francisco who also built some of the best "Bullseye" pistols. His shop was about 45 miles away so I am not sure why he went to Giles in Florida.
Last edited by WildBill on Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Maybe we can meet up at PSC sometime. I think you are fairly close. The .38 is the most accurate centerfire I have shot. At least I can shoot it more accurately than I can everything else except my High Standard.
Maybe we can meet up at PSC sometime. I think you are fairly close. The .38 is the most accurate centerfire I have shot. At least I can shoot it more accurately than I can everything else except my High Standard.
Yes I am. I would enjoy that. PM'ing.
KAHR PM40/Hoffner IWB and S&W Mod 60/ Galco IWB
NRA Endowment Member, TSRA Life Member,100 Club Life Member,TFC Member
My Faith, My Gun and My Constitution: I cling to all three!
Maybe we can meet up at PSC sometime. I think you are fairly close. The .38 is the most accurate centerfire I have shot. At least I can shoot it more accurately than I can everything else except my High Standard.
Yes I am. I would enjoy that. PM'ing.
Well then, I will say I can shoot this gun okay, not real good, just all right. I don't need for you to have high expectations.
Interesting timing on this thread. I was at the range for our Tuesday evening pistol practice group tonight and a fellow showed up with a .38 special 1911 model. It turned out he lives around the corner from me, has been a competitive shooter for years and as an engineer who runs a machine shop, has built many interesting pistols. The guys in the group who shoot bullseye competition all agreed that the .38 special was the caliber of choice for the serious competition shooter. Most also said that they load their own, to their own specs. I had never seen a 1911 in this caliber and as we were picking up brass I was about to throw the casings in with the other 9mm cases when I noticed that they were a tad longer. He pulled out several 1991 models that he has built with parts from manufacturers that I have never heard of but they worked like magic. He even had a .38 pistol (686 I think he said) that he machined to accept a full moon clip, so he just dropped the fired casings out and fed a new ring of bullets in in one go.
I learn new things everyday in this hobby.
"Moderation is the silken string running through the pearl-chain of all virtues", Thomas Fuller
rwg3 wrote:Interesting timing on this thread. I was at the range for our Tuesday evening pistol practice group tonight and a fellow showed up with a .38 special 1911 model. It turned out he lives around the corner from me, has been a competitive shooter for years and as an engineer who runs a machine shop, has built many interesting pistols. The guys in the group who shoot bullseye competition all agreed that the .38 special was the caliber of choice for the serious competition shooter. Most also said that they load their own, to their own specs. I had never seen a 1911 in this caliber and as we were picking up brass I was about to throw the casings in with the other 9mm cases when I noticed that they were a tad longer. He pulled out several 1991 models that he has built with parts from manufacturers that I have never heard of but they worked like magic. He even had a .38 pistol (686 I think he said) that he machined to accept a full moon clip, so he just dropped the fired casings out and fed a new ring of bullets in in one go.
I learn new things everyday in this hobby.
You said the cases were a "tad longer"; are you sure they weren't .38 Super (instead of .38 Special)? The .38 Super was used in a LOT of competitive shooting for a while. However, IIRC, the .38 Special guns were specifically for bullseye shooting competitions. My knowledge on this stuff is limited to what I've read and discussed with some folks, so if you meant what you meant, so be it. Just curious, that's all.
rwg3 wrote:Interesting timing on this thread. I was at the range for our Tuesday evening pistol practice group tonight and a fellow showed up with a .38 special 1911 model. It turned out he lives around the corner from me, has been a competitive shooter for years and as an engineer who runs a machine shop, has built many interesting pistols. The guys in the group who shoot bullseye competition all agreed that the .38 special was the caliber of choice for the serious competition shooter. Most also said that they load their own, to their own specs. I had never seen a 1911 in this caliber and as we were picking up brass I was about to throw the casings in with the other 9mm cases when I noticed that they were a tad longer. He pulled out several 1991 models that he has built with parts from manufacturers that I have never heard of but they worked like magic. He even had a .38 pistol (686 I think he said) that he machined to accept a full moon clip, so he just dropped the fired casings out and fed a new ring of bullets in in one go.
I learn new things everyday in this hobby.
You said the cases were a "tad longer"; are you sure they weren't .38 Super (instead of .38 Special)? The .38 Super was used in a LOT of competitive shooting for a while. However, IIRC, the .38 Special guns were specifically for bullseye shooting competitions. My knowledge on this stuff is limited to what I've read and discussed with some folks, so if you meant what you meant, so be it. Just curious, that's all.
The .38 Specials were specifically built for bullseye shooting. Both of the Giles guns (.38Spec and .45ACP) were built for bullseye shooting. Both have light recoil springs and aren't made to handle factory loads.
The .38 Special case is rimmed so it is easy to tell it from a .38 Super. The moon clip reference also makes more sense for a .38 Super.
BTW - Bullseye shooting is done with a one-handed grip. None of that two-handed Weaver grip stuff is allowed.
Ok in the interest of accuracy I waited until he came home from work to verify what he was shooting. The 1911 he built for IPSC shooting was a .38 super. The parts were from a slovakian sounding manufacturer whose name I have forgotten again, sorry. The revolver that he milled was a .38 special. He was shooting his own loads that were 200 gr bullets with 2.92 grains of powder. He made them for shooting plates. The heavier bullet was supposed to knock them down even with the easier recoil from the lower charge.
So today I learned a couple four things. One that loading your own gives all you kinds of options. Two having your own machine shop gives you all kinds of options. Three that are both .38 specials and supers. Four, that anything that says marine or boat on it cost twice as much as the same part at the hardware store, even in stainless.
"Moderation is the silken string running through the pearl-chain of all virtues", Thomas Fuller
rwg3 wrote:Ok in the interest of accuracy I waited until he came home from work to verify what he was shooting. The 1911 he built for IPSC shooting was a .38 super. The parts were from a slovakian sounding manufacturer whose name I have forgotten again, sorry. The revolver that he milled was a .38 special. He was shooting his own loads that were 200 gr bullets with 2.92 grains of powder. He made them for shooting plates. The heavier bullet was supposed to knock them down even with the easier recoil from the lower charge.
So today I learned a couple four things. One that loading your own gives all you kinds of options. Two having your own machine shop gives you all kinds of options. Three that are both .38 specials and supers. Four, that anything that says marine or boat on it cost twice as much as the same part at the hardware store, even in stainless.
Would the name of the company be Česká Zbrojovka, by chance? They make Dan Wesson 1911s (which are really nice)...and I can't think of any other Eastern European sounding named company that would make 1911 parts.
Would the name of the company be Česká Zbrojovka, by chance? They make Dan Wesson 1911s (which are really nice)...and I can't think of any other Eastern European sounding named company that would make 1911 parts.[/quote]
I think you are correct with the name.
"Moderation is the silken string running through the pearl-chain of all virtues", Thomas Fuller
Thanks Pumaguy and Patriot. That is what I need - flush wadcutters. Back then, many of the well known pistolsmiths were highly ranked shooters so they learned alot about how well their guns really worked. Unfortunately I don't know much about Giles and his guns other than the little information on the internet. 
The .38 Specials were specifically built for bullseye shooting. Both of the Giles guns (.38Spec and .45ACP) were built for bullseye shooting. Both have light recoil springs and aren't made to handle factory loads. 