Problem goes like this, friend works in dental office, 5 females, 1 male. Patient comes in and places handgun in plain view in the office before sitting down for teeth cleaning. The females do not feel comfortable and intimidated to say anything. Dr (male) does not have issues and has never said anything.
1) I explained that they need to talk to the Dr, it's his office and he owns the office complex, about their issues. Ask Dr to tell the patient to keep it concealed.
2) I explained that if he is CHL, he must keep it concealed at all times.
3) Only the Dr can request him to leave, Dr owns the office complex.
4) Only the Dr can post the sign to prohibit entry with concealed handgun.
My question is, if the Dr will not ask the patient to keep the handgun concealed, can the employees say something to the patient or last resort, report him to LEO?
Not So Concealed Problem
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soccerguy59
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Not So Concealed Problem
3/26/07 Plastic Received.
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stevie_d_64
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By "place" meaning they un-holstered, or just placed the whole rig up on a counter there in the room???
Either way, I consider that to be rather presumptuous, and not good firearm handling practice...Leaving it not under their direct control...
Regardless of whom they were...LEO or CHL...But this is just my opinion...
FYI, I just had a root canal done yesterday...I left mine locked out in the truck,because Ifigure if I was going to be squirming on the chair for an hour, I didn't want "it" to be digging into my back all that time...
I bet the shoulder rig guys come in here next...
Either way, I consider that to be rather presumptuous, and not good firearm handling practice...Leaving it not under their direct control...
Regardless of whom they were...LEO or CHL...But this is just my opinion...
FYI, I just had a root canal done yesterday...I left mine locked out in the truck,because Ifigure if I was going to be squirming on the chair for an hour, I didn't want "it" to be digging into my back all that time...
I bet the shoulder rig guys come in here next...
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
NRA - Life Member
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
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Smokewagon
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jimlongley
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I have had a property owner and proprietor of a business invite me to carry open on his property. I haven't done it, but I have wondered about the legality. I wonder if the dentist gave him permission at some time in the past.
Even with permission I don't think I would lay my gun down where I wasn't in direct control of it.
Even with permission I don't think I would lay my gun down where I wasn't in direct control of it.
Real gun control, carrying 24/7/365
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razoraggie
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Problem is also that when the firearm is off of his person, it is out of his immediate control. That to me is a HUGE liability for the office and the individual. If I were in the office (as an employee) I would politely ask the patient to please keep his firearm on his person and concealed for the safety and well being of the staff and other patients. It seems like a no-brainer and the Dr could honestly report him for this if he wanted.
My understanding of the CHL law on another persons property is that it must remain concealed. Any one that is afraid of it could report it to the police & the Dr. giving permission to open carry might not hold up.
Right answer is cover it & quit showing off.
Right answer is cover it & quit showing off.
Carry 24-7 or guess right.
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soccerguy59
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Good Info
I had not thought about the person being a LEO, I will mention it to my friend. I did mention to them as well that the Dr may have given permission and since the Dr owns the property, the patient has permission to carry but concealed.
I also recommended them to talk to the Dr, get more info, become aware of the circumstance. My friend is use to being around guns, but in an office, just feels uncomfortable. I explained to her that if he is CHL, nothing to worry about as we get an extensive background check with the FBI, local and state criminal records, back taxes owed, child support, so we are typically responsible good guys. If a person wanted to do a criminal act, they are not going to be so brazen about his gun.
I also recommended them to talk to the Dr, get more info, become aware of the circumstance. My friend is use to being around guns, but in an office, just feels uncomfortable. I explained to her that if he is CHL, nothing to worry about as we get an extensive background check with the FBI, local and state criminal records, back taxes owed, child support, so we are typically responsible good guys. If a person wanted to do a criminal act, they are not going to be so brazen about his gun.
3/26/07 Plastic Received.
I'm not clear on where the gun is located, nor what conversation this individual had with the business owner.
If he just comes in an plops a gun down on the dentist's counter, that's irresponsible, not to mention it's failing to conceal. Even if the dentist were fine with it, one runs the risk of it being knocked off the counter. Remember, the dentist is working, not admiring the gun.
If he had the dentist's permission to remove it, then placed it in a location (bottom shelf in a corner w/ his other belongings?), I can see where it would be a bit safer and possibly legal.
Personally, I'm a control freak when it comes to my guns. I like knowing where they are at all times. In public, I like knowing that I'm the only one with access. It's hard to be the only one with access if it's off your body, and you're reclined in a dentist's chair, half-sedated with freaky-sounding foreign objects in your mouth.
During a recent root canal, I wore my Bersa. Since it's small, it never bothered me.
If he just comes in an plops a gun down on the dentist's counter, that's irresponsible, not to mention it's failing to conceal. Even if the dentist were fine with it, one runs the risk of it being knocked off the counter. Remember, the dentist is working, not admiring the gun.
If he had the dentist's permission to remove it, then placed it in a location (bottom shelf in a corner w/ his other belongings?), I can see where it would be a bit safer and possibly legal.
Personally, I'm a control freak when it comes to my guns. I like knowing where they are at all times. In public, I like knowing that I'm the only one with access. It's hard to be the only one with access if it's off your body, and you're reclined in a dentist's chair, half-sedated with freaky-sounding foreign objects in your mouth.
During a recent root canal, I wore my Bersa. Since it's small, it never bothered me.
"If a man breaks in your house, he ain't there for iced tea." Mom & Dad.
The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.
The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.
I personaly just play it safe and leave the gun in the truck when I go into a Dr. office to get work done dental or otherwise because there is too much oppurtunity for the gun to be compromised. It is too hard to keep concealed under those circumstances
It is easier to get an airport security clearance than a CHL
This is part of the struggle we face. The very sight of a firearm causes concern and panic in folks, even folks who also own firearms.
The Dr. allowing the person to get comfortable and place his firearm out of the way is a good thing, and should be applauded, not scorned.
If it is illegal for a business owner to allow folks to open carry on the property, then every gun shop that allows employees to open carry is breaking the law.
It used to be very common place to see firearms in stores. Every department or hardware store had firearms and ammo for sale. In this atmosphere, guns were seen for what they are, tools. Now that even Wal Mart has stopped selling firearms, they are becoming objects to be feared. Now to see firearms in any quantity, you have to go to a gun store or a gun show, two places demonized by the anti's and the evening news.
This past weekend we had a BBQ for my wife's employees. One of the guests is an ex-Marine (not that you would ever guess that by taking with her). She had her boot camp book with her and after looking at all those old pictures, I decided to get an up to date photo of her with an AR.
The reaction when I brought out the EBR was mixed, just the sight of it stressed a couple of folks out. A young boy that was there wanted to see it, and Mama was definitely against that happening. After we took the pictures, I sat down with the boy and showed him the AR and asked him what he was supposed to do if he ever found a gun or saw one of his friends with a gun, he had no idea. Sw we went through the whole basic Eddie Eagle program. When the BBQ was over, and as folks were leaving, I asked the boy to tell his mother what he would do if he ever found a gun and he had remembered what we talked about and did a good job of explaining it to her.
Your friends concern about the firearm being out in the open was a prime opportunity to explain to her that firearms are tools, no different than the plaque scrappers being used on the man's teeth. That a firearm out in the open on a table is not going to jump up and shoot anyone. It is also a good opportunity to ask if maybe they would want to head out to the range and learn to shoot themselves :)
The Dr. allowing the person to get comfortable and place his firearm out of the way is a good thing, and should be applauded, not scorned.
If it is illegal for a business owner to allow folks to open carry on the property, then every gun shop that allows employees to open carry is breaking the law.
It used to be very common place to see firearms in stores. Every department or hardware store had firearms and ammo for sale. In this atmosphere, guns were seen for what they are, tools. Now that even Wal Mart has stopped selling firearms, they are becoming objects to be feared. Now to see firearms in any quantity, you have to go to a gun store or a gun show, two places demonized by the anti's and the evening news.
This past weekend we had a BBQ for my wife's employees. One of the guests is an ex-Marine (not that you would ever guess that by taking with her). She had her boot camp book with her and after looking at all those old pictures, I decided to get an up to date photo of her with an AR.
The reaction when I brought out the EBR was mixed, just the sight of it stressed a couple of folks out. A young boy that was there wanted to see it, and Mama was definitely against that happening. After we took the pictures, I sat down with the boy and showed him the AR and asked him what he was supposed to do if he ever found a gun or saw one of his friends with a gun, he had no idea. Sw we went through the whole basic Eddie Eagle program. When the BBQ was over, and as folks were leaving, I asked the boy to tell his mother what he would do if he ever found a gun and he had remembered what we talked about and did a good job of explaining it to her.
Your friends concern about the firearm being out in the open was a prime opportunity to explain to her that firearms are tools, no different than the plaque scrappers being used on the man's teeth. That a firearm out in the open on a table is not going to jump up and shoot anyone. It is also a good opportunity to ask if maybe they would want to head out to the range and learn to shoot themselves :)
"No arsenal or no weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women." Ronald Reagan
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srothstein
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It could very well be a problem, even just carrying. Remember that 46.035 makes it a crime to carry while intoxicated. Intoxication is defined as:
(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or
(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.
If you are under the influence of an anesthetic, you are intoxicated.
(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or
(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.
If you are under the influence of an anesthetic, you are intoxicated.
Steve Rothstein
I don't get anesthetic for a simple teeth cleaning.
But if I were to have a procedure where anesthesia was necessary, the firearm would stay home, as would the car keys.
But if I were to have a procedure where anesthesia was necessary, the firearm would stay home, as would the car keys.
"No arsenal or no weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women." Ronald Reagan