Buying multiple firearms

[Ericstac]

Is there a limit n how many guns you can buy at the same time? Or a point where you are flagged for buying a lot of weapons?

[The Annoyed Man]

Is there a limit n how many guns you can buy at the same time? Or a point where you are flagged for buying a lot of weapons?

http://www.atf.gov/publications/factshe ... rting.html

Since it's in the public domain, I will quote in its entirety:

Contact: ATF Public Affairs Division
(202) 648-8500
MULTIPLE SALES REPORTING
In August 2011, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) initiated the Multiple Sales Reporting (MSR) requirement for certain rifles. MSR requires federal firearms licensees (FFL), specifically dealers and pawnbrokers, in Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas to submit reports of multiple sales or other dispositions to an unlicensed individual of two or more rifles within five consecutive business days having the following characteristics: (1) semiautomatic; (2) a caliber greater than .22 (including .223/5.56 mm); and (3) the ability to accept detachable magazines. The National Tracing Center advised FFLs in the four border states that the program was being implemented to assist in investigating and combating the illegal movement of firearms along and across the Southwest border.

The Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968 requires federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to report multiple sales of handguns to the same purchaser [18 U.S.C. § 923(g)(3)]. The sale of two or more handguns must be reported if they occur at the same time, or within five business days of each other. The report must be filed with ATF no later than the close of business on the day the multiple sales or other disposition took place and includes information that identifies the purchaser and the firearms purchased. By law, a copy of this handgun multiple sale report must be provided to designated state or local law enforcement agencies. These reports provide ATF with potential intelligence and almost real-time investigative leads that can indicate illegal firearms trafficking. ATF began requiring the FFLs to report the multiple transactions in 1975. The federal statute that codified the multiple sales of handguns reporting requirement went into effect in 1986.

No similar law exists for other firearms, specifically long-guns, regardless of the caliber, gauge, or suitability for sporting purposes. As a result, individuals can purchase dozens of rifles at one time without ATF being informed of the sale. At the time the multiple sale reporting requirement was debated in Congress, handguns, not rifles, were considered far more likely to be diverted for illicit purposes within the United States.

ATF has long used multiple sales information to detect, investigate and prevent firearms trafficking. ATF views the recovery of one or more firearms that were part of a multiple purchase as an indicator of firearms trafficking, particularly if one of the firearms was recovered a short time after the multiple sale occurred (known as a short time-to-crime).

While handguns remain popular as crime guns in the United States, Mexican law enforcement officials have reported that certain types of rifles are regularly being used to commit violent crimes in Mexico. These rifles typically include AK-47 and AR-15 variants with detachable magazines.

By requiring the reporting of multiple sales of the specified rifles, this requirement has provided significant investigative leads to law enforcement in pursuing firearms trafficking to Mexico and in the United States. Reports of multiple sales or other dispositions are used to discern patterns in the purchase of firearms that may indicate the interstate trafficking of illegal firearms. The information is used to determine if the buyer (transferee) is involved in an unlawful activity, such as straw purchases. Specifically, this information provides leads on illegal firearms traffickers who provide firearms to Mexican drug cartels and others who use firearms to commit violent crime. In the initial analysis of ATF data, it appears MSR is also having a deterrent effect on illicit purchasing.

ATF is not creating a database of gun owners. [Yeah...right.... TAM] ATF is using the information from the multiple sales forms to generate investigative leads. If firearms listed on MSR forms are not part of a criminal investigation within two years, the purchaser information is purged. As a matter of course, any information reported by FFLs to ATF that is not a part of the information request, is immediately purged from the system by ATF personnel.

Based on reporting of multiple sales of handguns, ATF estimates each one-page report takes an FFL 12 minutes to complete. ATF estimates the average wage for a firearms sales clerk is $11 per hour. The estimated annual time allotment per FFL is about 90 minutes to complete the forms. The estimated annual financial cost per FFL is $16.

Initially, ATF identified approximately 8,500 potential FFL respondents in the applicable states, and estimated that only 30 percent, or approximately 2,500 FFLs, conduct transactions that require reporting under the program.

ATF has seen several benefits that are the direct result of this data collection. First, collection and analysis of this data has resulted in substantive investigative leads that yield viable cases for federal prosecution. Second, collection of the requested information has given ATF the ability to more readily identify and interdict firearms trafficking networks. As opposed to tracing data, MSR data allows for more timely identification and contact with potential straw purchasers and traffickers. This enables ATF to disrupt, dismantle, arrest, and prosecute firearms traffickers earlier during the life of the criminal conspiracy. Last, this program has had a deterrent and disruptive effect on firearms trafficking networks. Forcing trafficking organizations to expand their networks and/or change buying patterns has given ATF agents more opportunities to infiltrate, investigate and disrupt these criminal conspiracies.

For more information about ATF go to http://www.atf.gov" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

[Ericstac]

Bummer.

How does that work with online sales.. Is it when the order is placed, shipped or when the FFL dealer gets it and does my paperwork?

[OldCannon]

Handguns: More than one at a time gets reported.

In states that border Mexico (at the moment): More than one semi-auto rifle that's not a .22 must be reported.

Shotguns, Receivers: Snatch them up, boys! Nobody's lookin!

Seriously, the BEST way to avoid that whole multiple sale thing for rifles is to just buy a boatload of lowers (well, not anymore, but last week...), and then mail order some uppers.

Oh - multiple sales are reported when they are transferred from dealer to "unlicensed person." Dealer to dealer - ATF doesn't care. For now.

[JALLEN]

We take care of that pretty easily in California. You can buy only 1 pistol every 30 days from a retail seller. You can buy pistols privately which do not count under the 1 every 30 day rule and those go through an FFL who must store them during the 10 day waiting period which is required to buy any firearm. Nothing Fast and Furious about it!

[Panzer Possum]

I would be pretty furious but I keep forgetting the Second Amendment doesn't apply in foreign countries like Kalistan.

[JJVP]

Is there a limit n how many guns you can buy at the same time? Or a point where you are flagged for buying a lot of weapons?

http://www.atf.gov/publications/factshe ... rting.html

Since it's in the public domain, I will quote in its entirety:

Contact: ATF Public Affairs Division
(202) 648-8500
MULTIPLE SALES REPORTING
In August 2011, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) initiated the Multiple Sales Reporting (MSR) requirement for certain rifles. MSR requires federal firearms licensees (FFL), specifically dealers and pawnbrokers, in Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas to submit reports of multiple sales or other dispositions to an unlicensed individual of two or more rifles within five consecutive business days having the following characteristics: (1) semiautomatic; (2) a caliber greater than .22 (including .223/5.56 mm); and (3) the ability to accept detachable magazines. The National Tracing Center advised FFLs in the four border states that the program was being implemented to assist in investigating and combating the illegal movement of firearms along and across the Southwest border.

The Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968 requires federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to report multiple sales of handguns to the same purchaser [18 U.S.C. § 923(g)(3)]. The sale of two or more handguns must be reported if they occur at the same time, or within five business days of each other. The report must be filed with ATF no later than the close of business on the day the multiple sales or other disposition took place and includes information that identifies the purchaser and the firearms purchased. By law, a copy of this handgun multiple sale report must be provided to designated state or local law enforcement agencies. These reports provide ATF with potential intelligence and almost real-time investigative leads that can indicate illegal firearms trafficking. ATF began requiring the FFLs to report the multiple transactions in 1975. The federal statute that codified the multiple sales of handguns reporting requirement went into effect in 1986.

No similar law exists for other firearms, specifically long-guns, regardless of the caliber, gauge, or suitability for sporting purposes. As a result, individuals can purchase dozens of rifles at one time without ATF being informed of the sale. At the time the multiple sale reporting requirement was debated in Congress, handguns, not rifles, were considered far more likely to be diverted for illicit purposes within the United States.

ATF has long used multiple sales information to detect, investigate and prevent firearms trafficking. ATF views the recovery of one or more firearms that were part of a multiple purchase as an indicator of firearms trafficking, particularly if one of the firearms was recovered a short time after the multiple sale occurred (known as a short time-to-crime).

While handguns remain popular as crime guns in the United States, Mexican law enforcement officials have reported that certain types of rifles are regularly being used to commit violent crimes in Mexico. These rifles typically include AK-47 and AR-15 variants with detachable magazines.

By requiring the reporting of multiple sales of the specified rifles, this requirement has provided significant investigative leads to law enforcement in pursuing firearms trafficking to Mexico and in the United States. Reports of multiple sales or other dispositions are used to discern patterns in the purchase of firearms that may indicate the interstate trafficking of illegal firearms. The information is used to determine if the buyer (transferee) is involved in an unlawful activity, such as straw purchases. Specifically, this information provides leads on illegal firearms traffickers who provide firearms to Mexican drug cartels and others who use firearms to commit violent crime. In the initial analysis of ATF data, it appears MSR is also having a deterrent effect on illicit purchasing.

ATF is not creating a database of gun owners. [Yeah...right.... TAM] ATF is using the information from the multiple sales forms to generate investigative leads. If firearms listed on MSR forms are not part of a criminal investigation within two years, the purchaser information is purged. As a matter of course, any information reported by FFLs to ATF that is not a part of the information request, is immediately purged from the system by ATF personnel.

Based on reporting of multiple sales of handguns, ATF estimates each one-page report takes an FFL 12 minutes to complete. ATF estimates the average wage for a firearms sales clerk is $11 per hour. The estimated annual time allotment per FFL is about 90 minutes to complete the forms. The estimated annual financial cost per FFL is $16.

Initially, ATF identified approximately 8,500 potential FFL respondents in the applicable states, and estimated that only 30 percent, or approximately 2,500 FFLs, conduct transactions that require reporting under the program.

ATF has seen several benefits that are the direct result of this data collection. First, collection and analysis of this data has resulted in substantive investigative leads that yield viable cases for federal prosecution. Second, collection of the requested information has given ATF the ability to more readily identify and interdict firearms trafficking networks. As opposed to tracing data, MSR data allows for more timely identification and contact with potential straw purchasers and traffickers. This enables ATF to disrupt, dismantle, arrest, and prosecute firearms traffickers earlier during the life of the criminal conspiracy. Last, this program has had a deterrent and disruptive effect on firearms trafficking networks. Forcing trafficking organizations to expand their networks and/or change buying patterns has given ATF agents more opportunities to infiltrate, investigate and disrupt these criminal conspiracies.

For more information about ATF go to http://www.atf.gov" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

So is the FFL, who reports the sale of multiple firearms, correct? So what prevents you from going to LGS-1, buying a firearm, then going to LGS-2 and buying another firearm, then going to LGS-3 and buying another one, etc, etc, etc. Each FFL has only sold you a single fiream, so no reporting. However, you just bought multiple firearms. Another idiotic law.

[OldCannon]

So is the FFL, who reports the sale of multiple firearms, correct? So what prevents you from going to LGS-1, buying a firearm, then going to LGS-2 and buying another firearm, then going to LGS-3 and buying another one, etc, etc, etc. Each FFL has only sold you a single fiream, so no reporting. However, you just bought multiple firearms. Another idiotic law.

Pretty much correct, EXCEPT if you don't have a CHL. Then your multiple background checks in a short time might flag somebody, causing you to get delayed. If you have a CHL though...no problem, nothing gets reported back to the ATF.

[rm9792]

Thats the flaw you can usually find in any liberal logic. With a CHL I can go store to store all day and probably buy 15 guns a day. Double that if you go to a gun show and hit every vendor. The Libs come up with these grand plans that dont even look good on paper then go home quite self satified they solved all crime going forward.