After tragic events, a time for ACTION

[hi-power]

Unfortunately it's not just a democrat that we have to worry about. Have your read Guiliani, and McCain's stance on firearms. We don't have any friends in this election.

At least McCain is saying the right things now.

McCain Backs Gun Rights After Shootings

LAREDO, Texas (AP) - Sen. John McCain says the shooting rampage at Virginia Tech does not change his view that the Constitution guarantees everyone the right to carry a weapon.

"We have to look at what happened here, but it doesn't change my views on the Second Amendment, except to make sure that these kinds of weapons don't fall into the hands of bad people," McCain said Monday in response to a question.

The Arizona Republican, who was campaigning in this Texas-Mexico border city, said he didn't know the details of the attacks at Virginia Tech.

"I do believe in the constitutional right that everyone has, in the Second Amendment to the Constitution, to carry a weapon," he said. "Obviously we have to keep guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens."

(I snipped the rest of the article).

[stroo]

They were not prevented from effectively defending themselves only from defending themselves with a gun. I know that many of those on this board, if they had been in the positions of the students, would have rushed the gunman. If enough had, they surely could have disarmed him. Some might have been killed but not nearly as many.

I posted this elsewhere, but the one thing that sticks in my mind is the NO ONE FOUGHT BACK. NO ONE. A few heroically stood in the gunman's way before he shot them down but no one fought back.

Our schools have been teaching that it is wrong to defend yourself. That is also the big issue with gun control. The antis don't want you to defend yourself. And what do we here from Law Enforcement Agencies all the time - give the robber what he wants and you won't get hurt.

This needs to turn around. We need to shout it from the roof tops. DEFEND YOURSELF!!

[ScubaSigGuy]

Unfortunately it's not just a democrat that we have to worry about. Have your read Guiliani, and McCain's stance on firearms. We don't have any friends in this election.

At least McCain is saying the right things now.

McCain Backs Gun Rights After Shootings

LAREDO, Texas (AP) - Sen. John McCain says the shooting rampage at Virginia Tech does not change his view that the Constitution guarantees everyone the right to carry a weapon.

"We have to look at what happened here, but it doesn't change my views on the Second Amendment, except to make sure that these kinds of weapons don't fall into the hands of bad people," McCain said Monday in response to a question.

The Arizona Republican, who was campaigning in this Texas-Mexico border city, said he didn't know the details of the attacks at Virginia Tech.

"I do believe in the constitutional right that everyone has, in the Second Amendment to the Constitution, to carry a weapon," he said. "Obviously we have to keep guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens."

(I snipped the rest of the article).

That's a significant change. His previous statements have usually involved more gun control.

Thanks.

[hi-power]

Let us use this time to respond proactively to the gun control hype which is sure to follow. The first thing we can do, TONIGHT OR TOMORROW, is to all write to letters to the editors of our respective newspapers. In these letters we can advance the notion that had just ONE student or faculty member been permitted to possess a handgun for self defense, the bloody toll of this day would have been greatly diminished. The fact that the Virginia legislature just defeated a bill which would have permitted this practice and that the university itself reiterated its pro-ban stance so that those on campus would "feel safer", confirms this horrible irony.

Let's make people realize that the most tragic homicidal rampages in recent history happened in places where possession of firearms by "law abiding" citizens are prohibited and that ONLY THE CRIMINALS were armed in those locations...and the criminals know this. If folks think about it, rather than just 'feel' about it, schools, universities, post offices, California day cares, airlines,and courthouses are where criminals choose to commit their heinous acts because they KNOW that they will not have to confront the unknown armed law abiding citizen.

Then, let's contact our legislators to let them know that we will not cower in shame as a result of this event because we were not part of the problem. We can, however, be part of the solution.

I know that there is a limited amount that we can do but we cannot afford to let this be used against us. We cannot just say, " Oh, boy, here comes another buch of gun control legislation". We must take what steps we can to not let this be used as a club against us. Let us prepare ourselves for the battle which will come.

I invite additions and commentary. I know that I have not expressed my thoughts as well as one might, but I wanted to get something out there to to help direct us to act rather than just feel and react. I urge those better able to help refine this message for us all.

Thanks and God Bless.

(Edited for spelling corrections).

CWOOD, I think that is a great idea and one that I'm going to run with.

Here are some points I'd like to make, (and anyone can add to these or poke holes in them - I haven't got my arms around this situation well enough so I could write a coherent and thoughtful letter yet):

The shooter apparently followed all applicable laws in purchasing the handguns and ammo, even the "one gun a month" law unique to Virginia. The first gun was purchased March 13th and the second one sometime after April 13th.

He was a resident alien and apparently provided the proof required to purchase the handguns legitimately.

I think my main point to make in letters to the editors will be that no matter how many laws are in place, premeditated murder can not be stopped without immediate intervention, (not police responding to 911 calls, but someone already in the area).

If guns did not exist, this person would have used a machete or poison or explosives or crossbow, etc.

However, one armed student or faculty member in the vicinity would at least have given some of the victims a chance at surviving this massacre. The brave Czech-Israeli professor who protected his classroom by standing in the doorway while students attempted to escape out windows could have ended the ordeal with one shot.

[carlson1]

OK guys, lets stop this NOW. If you don't agree, then you don't agree. No need for personal attacks.

Lets be careful to not have this thread locked.

[jimlongley]

Unfortunately it's not just a democrat that we have to worry about. Have your read Guiliani, and McCain's stance on firearms. We don't have any friends in this election.

At least McCain is saying the right things now.

McCain Backs Gun Rights After Shootings

LAREDO, Texas (AP) - Sen. John McCain says the shooting rampage at Virginia Tech does not change his view that the Constitution guarantees everyone the right to carry a weapon.

"We have to look at what happened here, but it doesn't change my views on the Second Amendment, except to make sure that these kinds of weapons don't fall into the hands of bad people," McCain said Monday in response to a question.

The Arizona Republican, who was campaigning in this Texas-Mexico border city, said he didn't know the details of the attacks at Virginia Tech.

"I do believe in the constitutional right that everyone has, in the Second Amendment to the Constitution, to carry a weapon," he said. "Obviously we have to keep guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens."

(I snipped the rest of the article).

That's a significant change. His previous statements have usually involved more gun control.

Thanks.

Unfortunately that one "make sure that these kinds of weapons don't fall into the hands of bad people" leaves the door open for a lot of "common sense" gun laws.

A leopard that appears to have changed its spots is probably just muddy.

[cxm]

Unfortunately, the media won't report all the facts...

It seems the shooter, an alien in the U.S. has some Islamic involvement, reports are now coming out that he has Islamic related writings in his poessions. The media will of course try to keep this part quiet and then play it down. Time will tell exactly what is going on.

Sadly the VA Legislature had only weeks earlier rejected the one bill that might have ended this mess before it grew to such proportions.

The bill would have allowed CHL holders to carry concealed on campus... which would have given at least a chance of stopping the shooter.

Gun control freaks have forced laws on us that make our children totally helpless on campus... unarmed victims for both criminals and foreign terrorists... The Korean shooter knew everyone campus was a helpless victim...teachers, staff, students, everyone... and the blood is on the hands of the Brady bunch et. al. for the shooting as a result.

Gun control laws and the gun control bunch killed these poor people at VA Tech as surely as if they had pulled the trigger.

I have noted that the quickest way to reduce crime in the U.S. is to deport non-citizens... and that action would have prevented this atrocity as well. We continue to allow ourselves to be victims of aliens in our country... when will it end. In many states aliens account for more than half of the violent crime.

I doubt the lefties in the media will learn the right lessons from this attack... maybe someday...

V/r


Chuck

[Liberty]

I'm not too sure why you guys are being so hard-headed about this. I am no less a supporter of CHLs being allowed to carry where they want, but you must not understand the people you are dealing with. I JUST graduated from College, Penn State to be exact. I am STILL in that 18-24 age group, 23 to be exact. Why is it that I can see a need to "deal" with the liberal ideaology of college campuses to get what we want and none of you "wiser" older guys can? If you want to stand there with your arms folded across your chest, yelling on the playground, and not give up any ground that you're already NOT standing on, fine by me, but that is not the direction I plan on going. You will get no where. This is a political beast. If you want to live in la-la land and think that we will be granted everything the Framers "gave" to us, go ahead, but I will guarantee that you will get nowhere.

This is not an issue where we should be working with the liberal ideology. We need to walk over and bulldoze our way through their objection. We here have been critical over the Virginia Legislature because they just let their bill die. Well, we didn't even post a bill at all!! The TSRA was afraid of the lefty schools and teachers unions. Timidity gets us no where. Instead we have teachers instructing their students to throw books at terrorist as a means of self defense. There will be cooperation from the school systems no mater what compromises we offer. The school districts and colleges can now authorise employees to conceal carry, and not one school district allows one CHL employee to carry. There is no point in cooperating with these guys, Its like cooperating with Harris county DAs, there is no point..

[sparx]

That's a significant change. His previous statements have usually involved more gun control.

I was going to say that this sounds more like McCain speaks with forked tongue, but jimlongley already phrased it in similar terms, so now I'll just agree with jim.

[nitrogen]

I have read, but already knew, how profoundly saddened the good people on this forum were upon learning of the tragic events at Virginia Tech today. I join in that sorrow. But, don't let our grief paralyze us into inaction and defensiveness. I do not mean to be callous but...

Let us use this time to respond proactively to the gun control hype which is sure to follow. The first thing we can do, TONIGHT OR TOMORROW, is to all write to letters to the editors of our respective newspapers. In these letters we can advance the notion that had just ONE student or faculty member been permitted to possess a handgun for self defense, the bloody toll of this day would have been greatly diminished. The fact that the Virginia legislature just defeated a bill which would have permitted this practice and that the university itself reiterated its pro-ban stance so that those on campus would "feel safer", confirms this horrible irony.
[snip...]

I'm glad this thread got back on track after the flamefest it became.

I offer another suggestion that I posted in another thread. Something directly, we can all do, reproduced here:

The best thing you can do, and the easiest and most fun:

Take a newbie shooting.
Take someone who has no experience with guns, and give them a positive experience. The more often you do this, the better off we all are.

I commonly sign up to do this through other web communities i'm on, and the group of us usually get great responses to it.

I think we ALL should start getting organized at the local level to do this. Keeping it personal (i.e. making it an event sponsered by Mr. Longtooth or Mr. TexasInvestigator, vs, one sponsored by the TSRA) makes it more of a personal event. Maybe posting a flyer at your church, or just talking to people you might know to be either gun-ambivilant, or anti gun, and offer to take them out, with no judgements and no "witnessing about how good guns are" and offer to teach them gun safety, and basic shooting, so they can learn "what it's all about"

If we each comitted to take at least one newbie out shooting every 3-6 months imagine how many new people we could introduce to the wonders of shooting?

Imagine if everyone we introduced to shooting started introducing OTHERS to shooting...?

[Will938]

I saw two pro-CHL mail calls in the school paper today (one from a lady - that makes me ) , and one pro-gun control.

I agree that there shouldn't be any additional requirements on the person carrying, its already the responsibility of that person to decide if something isn't safe enough to do.

I can sit in a packed movie theater and legislators don't blink an eye, why should a university be any different?

While I'm somewhat paranoid about having one in the pipe in a packed class, I know that properly held in a holster its not going to cause any problems.

[stevie_d_64]

I agree that there shouldn't be any additional requirements on the person carrying, its already the responsibility of that person to decide if something isn't safe enough to do.

Safe in what manner???

I can sit in a packed movie theater and legislators don't blink an eye, why should a university be any different?

Or a whole lotta other places, right???

While I'm somewhat paranoid about having one in the pipe in a packed class, I know that properly held in a holster its not going to cause any problems.

What is your fear of "one in the pipe"??? What do you normally carry???

[anygunanywhere]

Timidity gets us no where.

The only thing timidity brings us is a steadily rising body count and more crazed individuals harvesting innocent helpless victims in gun-free zones.

[killerquad]

I have noted that the quickest way to reduce crime in the U.S. is to deport non-citizens...

Are you serious?!?! I was a non-citizen for a long time and I never broke any laws or commited any crimes(speeding tickets dont count ). I was a lawful permanent resident from the time I entered this country. I am now a card carrying member of the NRA and I strongly believe in our SA rights. By the way I am also a PROUD CITIZEN of the USA now and what you need to realize is that many of us even though at some point were "non-citizens" are not criminals and stand for some of the same things you do.

/vent

Sorry for going off topic.

[Will938]

I agree that there shouldn't be any additional requirements on the person carrying, its already the responsibility of that person to decide if something isn't safe enough to do.

Safe in what manner???

I can sit in a packed movie theater and legislators don't blink an eye, why should a university be any different?

Or a whole lotta other places, right???

While I'm somewhat paranoid about having one in the pipe in a packed class, I know that properly held in a holster its not going to cause any problems.

What is your fear of "one in the pipe"??? What do you normally carry???

Let me rephrase, its the individual's responsibility to carry firearms in a safe manner.

of course, the only place (off the top of my head) that I think firearms should be restricted in any way are at prisons.

Sig P228, outside of a holster I'd worry about the trigger getting snagged.