Printing

BrassMonkey · Post by **BrassMonkey** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:21 pm

What statute addresses printing?

dpatterson · Post by **dpatterson** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:52 pm

Here are a few links to other post that talk about printing. You will find that alot of topics have been discussed several times. You can find them by searching the forums.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... t=printing
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... t=printing
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... t=printing
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... t=printing

And to answer your question I do not think there is anything that speaks to "Printing". I think its more of Failure to Conceal.
DP

BrassMonkey · Post by **BrassMonkey** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:53 pm

Thanks DP,
I was specifically looking for Texas Statutes... I will go thru the posts as well

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:17 pm

You can look at two statutes:

GC Â§411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter: (3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

PC Â§46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

People argue incessantly about the definition of printing and whether it is illegal. I've never heard of anyone being arrested for it in Texas.

I am not a lawyer, etc.

- Jim

NcongruNt · Post by **NcongruNt** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:25 pm

Well, from my understanding in reading the law and the multiple discussions here, there is nothing illegal about unintentional printing. It has to be shown that you intentionally failed to conceal your weapon.

PC Â§46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

Beyond that, you face people freaking out if you don't do a good enough job of concealing. That can turn into a panicked call to 911 about you, and subsequent hassle and possible legal costs of defending yourself, as has been discussed in these forums.

NcongruNt · Post by **NcongruNt** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:26 pm

Gah, you beat me to it, Seamus.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:45 pm

NcongruNt wrote:Gah, you beat me to it, Seamus.

I didn't know it was a race.

- Jim

NcongruNt · Post by **NcongruNt** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:33 pm

seamusTX wrote:
NcongruNt wrote:Gah, you beat me to it, Seamus.
I didn't know it was a race.

- Jim

Well, if it was, you won!

CWOOD · Post by **CWOOD** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:53 pm

seamusTX wrote:You can look at two statutes:
GC Â§411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter: (3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.
PC Â§46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
People argue incessantly about the definition of printing and whether it is illegal. I've never heard of anyone being arrested for it in Texas.

I am not a lawyer, etc.

- Jim

These are indeed the applicable legal citations. The reason that so many folks can argue about the meaning of "discernible", "ordinary observation", "reasonable person", and "intentionally", is that these terms and statutes have not been clearly set in case law.

For the most part, this means that it is not a great problem area. Printing as a legal offense does not exist so forget that term...kind of like brandishing. These terms may be pertinent in other states but not Texas.

When I first started carrying with a CHL, a couple of renewals ago, it seemed that EVERYONE must be able to see my weapon. The fact of the matter is the NO ONE sees it unless you take it out and wave it around.

I once had occasion where I walked around for about an hour in public, including at the home of a daughter's teacher, with my weapon fully exposed in an IWB holster. It had accidently or carelessly been 'untucked' for that whole time until my daughter let me know. NO ONE "saw" it even though it was in plain sight.

I frequently carry a Glock 30 IWB under an untucked T-shirt, under a tucked sport shirt with no othr cover garment. Never had a problem. Even untucked with a light windbreaker and the wind blows it open, never had a problem. Take reasonable precautions but don't obsess.

Finally, I know you didn't ask about all of this so disregard if you like. I guess I was also addressing the concern about this topic generally.

Sorry if went too far afield of you topic.

BrassMonkey · Post by **BrassMonkey** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 pm

This is all what I was looking for. I too was unable to find a statute that describes "printing" as against the law....

longtooth · Post by **longtooth** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:50 pm

Remember rule # 3 and 4.
#3. good gunbelt & holster.
#4. Put it on, cover it up, & leave it alone.

Do these two things & no one will know you have it on except you. If you obey #3 then you will forget until you need it.

LT

frankie_the_yankee · Post by **frankie_the_yankee** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:46 pm

seamusTX wrote:
You can look at two statutes:

GC Â§411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter: (3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

PC Â§46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
People argue incessantly about the definition of printing and whether it is illegal. I've never heard of anyone being arrested for it in Texas.

I am not a lawyer, etc.

- Jim

14 convicted of this offense in 2005.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... rt2005.pdf

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:52 pm

frankie_the_yankee wrote:14 convicted of this offense in 2005.

People were convicted of unlawful carry by a license holder. We don't know what they did.

I've never heard of anyone being arrested because they bent over in the grocery store or that sort of thing. The only arrest that I know the facts about (second-hand) was a guy who flashed in an argument.

- Jim

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:40 am

frankie_the_yankee wrote:
seamusTX wrote:
You can look at two statutes:

GC Â§411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter: (3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

PC Â§46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
People argue incessantly about the definition of printing and whether it is illegal. I've never heard of anyone being arrested for it in Texas.

I am not a lawyer, etc.

- Jim
14 convicted of this offense in 2005.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... rt2005.pdf

As SeamusTX noted, we don't know which of the 10 violations under this law the people were convicted of.

frankie_the_yankee · Post by **frankie_the_yankee** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:01 am

seamusTX wrote:
frankie_the_yankee wrote:14 convicted of this offense in 2005.
People were convicted of unlawful carry by a license holder. We don't know what they did.

I've never heard of anyone being arrested because they bent over in the grocery store or that sort of thing. The only arrest that I know the facts about (second-hand) was a guy who flashed in an argument.

- Jim

Neither have I.

+1