Buy and Sell Guns

[anygunanywhere]

Lets just say if you've bought 5 ARs since Dec and you no longer have them the ATF wouldn't be happy. I read s&w,where that the ATF has visited people that has made large purchases recently to ask them questions. Not sure in details I think it was one a AK site

Free enterprise.

Besides, if you are actually speaking of the ATF as a legitimate agency that fully intends to enforce the law ethically I have some oceanfront property in Kerrville to sell you. The ATF has made/allowed more straw purchases that actually ended in the death of US citizens than anyone.

Anygunanywhere

[cajunautoxer]

You guys can do what you want. I ain't loosing my medical licenses bc of something stupid as trying to make a few bucks. Not worth it

[anygunanywhere]

You guys can do what you want. I ain't loosing my medical licenses bc of something stupid as trying to make a few bucks. Not worth it

What the OP asked is entirely legal. I used to be an FFL. We are not going to steer someone into doing something patently illegal.

If we were to attempt that the mods and Charles would skin us alive.

Furthermore, Keith B IS a mod and he posted.

Anygunanywhere

[jmra]

Lets just say if you've bought 5 ARs since Dec and you no longer have them the ATF wouldn't be happy. I read s&w,where that the ATF has visited people that has made large purchases recently to ask them questions. Not sure in details I think it was one a AK site

Free enterprise.

Besides, if you are actually speaking of the ATF as a legitimate agency that fully intends to enforce the law ethically I have some oceanfront property in Kerrville to sell you. The ATF has made/allowed more straw purchases that actually ended in the death of US citizens than anyone.

Anygunanywhere

[seamusTX]

You guys can do what you want. I ain't loosing my medical licenses bc of something stupid as trying to make a few bucks. Not worth it

Medical license? Every federal firearms violation is at least a 10-year term in the slammer. But buying and reselling firearms is not an offense. It's the famous "gun show loophole" that sme people are constantly yammering about.

- Jim

[OldCannon]

Buying one and selling it? The ATF doesn't really care.

Buying a lot of new rifles and selling them, the ATF _will_ give you a call.

How do I know? I was in communication with the ATF and FBI just yesterday about a private seller in another state who apparently got a really good jump on a LOT of AR-15s and has been "flipping" them on GunBroker. Even if the ATF arrests him and he is found not guilty, the massive legal fees will more than erase whatever profit he gains. Not to mention the thorough scrubbing down the IRS will give him afterward.

It is legal to privately sell guns you own. Buying a gun new and quickly selling it as new on GunBroker is a certain indicator that you are doing it for the purpose of making a profit in the same manner as a licensed dealer. Hence, "an unlicensed dealer." You're welcome to "push" that definition any way you want. It won't be me arguing the case in federal court.

[OldCannon]

...But buying and reselling firearms is not an offense.
- Jim

Not quite. To quote: "It is a federal felony to be an “unlicensed” firearms’ dealer, which is someone who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing, manufacturing, importing, repairing, or pawnbrokering firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective being livelihood or profit."

Believe me, the ATF considers this a "serious issue" internally right now.

[RX8er]

A word that keeps coming up here is "a lot" and I don't think any of us know what that number is. It could be different for each agent or each field office? I think with all the recent embarrassing news coverage the BATFE has received, they might not be as liberal in the interpretation of a rule of feeling for what is a business and what is not. Me personally, I think you need / should have an FFL to buy guns for the sole reason of resale, whether it is one or 50 if you are "feeding the family so to speak, with the money. I don't want to give the government any more reason to look harder at any loop holes or unclear regulation by just "skirting" a law.

I am searching for a thread I was reading on another site some time ago where a guy was investigated by the ATF because he had an opportunity to purchase 4 brand new guns all the same make. He kept 1 and sold the other 3. Never arrested but he did have considerable attorney fees before it was all over with.

[seamusTX]

There is a gray area between the occasional sale by an unlicensed person and illegal, unlicensed dealing. This has been the case pretty much since whatever law started requiring federal licenses (it was before 1968).

I find gray areas troubling, but that's the way it is.

To play the devil's advocate, the government does not want to say that if you sell X number of firearms per month you are a dealer, because then a lot of people would sell X-1.

- Jim

[OldCannon]

To play the devil's advocate, the government does not want to say that if you sell X number of firearms per month you are a dealer, because then a lot of people would sell X-1.

- Jim

Exactly right.

[seamusTX]

One more comment ... I went out for a ride, which can be an opportunity to ponder.

When the law is unclear, you are never sure whether you are violating it and could be prosecuted. Thus, you keep your head down and hands in your pockets and hope to escape notice. This is not exactly a police state, but it is the beginning of one.

We see this anxiety quite often when people are wondering about carrying a weapon (legally, with a CHL) at the zoo, the public library, in city parks that have "no guns" signs, the ever-misunderstood blue "unlicensed possession" sign, etc.

Every individual has to decide whether to play it 100% safe from a legal point of view, or to exercise one's rights and take a chance at some kind of misunderstanding. Each position has different costs, risks, and benefits.

- Jim

[bizarrenormality]

It is not illegal (in other words, it is legal) to buy a firearm and resell it in a short period of time. I think they used to call this free enterprise.

BARF would argue buying for resale is engaging in the business and that still requires a FFL even in Montana. Your choice of the words "free enterprise" also implies it's a business enterprise.

[seamusTX]

I'd rather not get into internet semantic discussions, but ...

Nearly everyone buys and sells things from time to time. It might be a house, a car, or the contents of the attic in a garage sale. That does not make the person a real-estate dealer, a car dealer, or a retail business operator. People can have a bake sale to raise funds for the soccer team or choir without all the rigmarole that normally surrounds food service.

That is free enterprise.

BATFE does not go after unlicensed individuals for a single sale of a firearm unless it is an intentional illegal transfer. They're not capable of it, any more than the cops could ticket every driver that rolled through a stop sign in Houston.

Unlicensed sellers at gun shows get the hairy eyeball sometimes, but they are rarely prosecuted. I can't find a record of such a prosecution.

- Jim

[Mike1951]

I do recall a case a few years ago at a gunshow in the east, where ATF arrested someone for dealing when he bought a firearm and resold it to an individual several rows over.

I'm still googling for details and I don't remember the disposition.

[Shinesintx]

Lets just say if you've bought 5 ARs since Dec and you no longer have them the ATF wouldn't be happy.

While I try to be an agreeable guy, making government agencies happy isn't on my to-do list.

- Jim

Dude, can I call ya dude? The above quote from you really made me giggle. Not sure you were trying to be funny, but that comment was priceless.