Don't Drink and Water the Lawn

[texanjoker]

Tragic incident no doubt. I do have questions that these articles do not elude to. From an investigator stand point if I was working this case the part I quoted doesn't mean much in itself without seeing the entire investigation and forensics on this case. Why, because in that limited story we do not know if the 1st shot missed as there were several shots fired. That could cause the deceased to react to include drop the nozzle, which would mean it wasn't hit by the buck shot. In reading the deceased was hit once, and there were several shots fired by two officers that is something to think about. The time of the 911 call is 4:40 PM, in December. We don't know what time the officers when on scene and what time the shooting went down. My point there is that it may have been low light or dark conditions when this went down making it harder to see. The article also indicates that he was drunk at the time of this incident. Unfortunately drunks can do stupid stuff and it could be possible he was being stupid with the nozzle and intentionally pointing at the cops like they stated because he thought it was funny. I had a drunk once point a lighter at me so I know stuff like that happens. I hope the family and officers can move on with their lives after that tragedy. I know no officer wants to learn they shot an unarmed person.

I think the point they were making was that IF he was pointing the nozzle at the officers "like he was aiming a gun"...and he was shot in the chest with a shotgun blast...then he would have been facing them, and his hands and the nozzle would have been in front of him to be aiming it like a gun at them, BUT his hands were not hit by the shotgun pattern. It is POSSIBLE he dropped the nozzle after hearing the first shot...which according to the officers was an accidental discharge by the officer with the pistol, but if so then the claim that he was "aiming it at them like gun" when the officer with the shotgun opened fire was not accurate. Most likely, it all happened so fast, they couldn't recall the exact sequence of events once the shooting started, but that doesn't excuse their actions. The FACT is, they shot before they KNEW what the real situation was, and an unarmed man was killed because of their mistakes. The jury obviously reached that conclusion also.

True for civil damages a jury found liability as they often do in OIS. I would bet if one researched the criminal case they would have been cleared and it would be a justifiable homicide (CA terms). Tragic all around no doubt. Tough to say whether they should or should not have fired w/o seeing what they saw at the time.

[cb1000rider]

wow.. just wow.

[Pacifist]

True for civil damages a jury found liability as they often do in OIS. I would bet if one researched the criminal case they would have been cleared and it would be a justifiable homicide (CA terms). Tragic all around no doubt. Tough to say whether they should or should not have fired w/o seeing what they saw at the time.

It was execution (not to be confused with suicide) by cop, pure and simple. There was no defense, protection, or service involved. They approached, they barely, if at all, observed and then they killed, which, it seems, is what the para-military graduates of our police academies seem to do all too often. They should not only be fired, but should also be in prison, where all proven and demonstrated trigger-happy cops belong.

[Jumping Frog]

True for civil damages a jury found liability as they often do in OIS. I would bet if one researched the criminal case they would have been cleared and it would be a justifiable homicide (CA terms). Tragic all around no doubt. Tough to say whether they should or should not have fired w/o seeing what they saw at the time.

It was execution (not to be confused with suicide) by cop, pure and simple. There was no defense, protection, or service involved. They approached, they barely, if at all, observed and then they killed, which, it seems, is what the para-military graduates of our police academies seem to do all too often. They should not only be fired, but should also be in prison, where all proven and demonstrated trigger-happy cops belong.

Well, I've noticed a few of your posts now that have made quite clear where your bias resides.

[cb1000rider]

It was execution

Can you explain to me why two LEO would "execute" a man that they didn't know? Execute implies intentional.
I'll buy execution when there is a motive. Until then, it's a *really* dumb perhaps inexcusable mistake.

I think in the next 20 years LEOs will be using something similar to Google Glass. At least I hope so. That is, low burden recording devices so we can get rid of the police officers that are up to no good and keep the ones that are great...

[Pacifist]

Can you explain to me why two LEO would "execute" a man that they didn't know?

As a matter of fact, yes, I quite easily can, and have, in multiple previous posts.

In short, and, I suppose, for your benefit:

1. A lack of proper training
2. A lack of general education
3. A lack of empathy
4. An overall "militarist" mindset
5. A training curriculum that results in indoctrination, rather than education
6. Group-think
7. Perceived "machismo" (even with, if not particular to, female LEOs)
8. An "us-verses-them" mentality
9. An attitude of "as-long-as-I-go-home-I-win-regardless-of-who-or-what-else-dies"
10. An acceptance by the general populace that all of the above are acceptable

Now, can you tell me why an innocent man was, indeed, executed and then those responsible for that execution, apparently, lied about the circumstances surrounding it?

[anygunanywhere]

ex·e·cu·tion
[ek-si-kyoo-shuhn] Show IPA

noun

1. the act or process of executing.

2. the state or fact of being executed.

3. the infliction of capital punishment or, formerly, of any legal punishment.

4. the process of performing a judgment or sentence of a court: The judge stayed execution of the sentence pending appeal.

5. a mode or style of performance; technical skill, as in music: The pianist's execution of the sonata was consummate.

YMMV.

Anygunanywhere

[Pacifist]

ex·e·cute
[ek-si-kyoot] Show IPA

verb

verb (used with object)

1. to carry out; accomplish: to execute a plan or order.

2. to perform or do: to execute a maneuver; to execute a gymnastic feat.

3. to inflict capital punishment on; put to death according to law.

4. to murder; assassinate. [emphasis added]

5. to produce in accordance with a plan or design: a painting executed by an unknown artist.

YMMV, indeed.

[anygunanywhere]

ex·e·cute
[ek-si-kyoot] Show IPA

verb

verb (used with object)

1. to carry out; accomplish: to execute a plan or order.

2. to perform or do: to execute a maneuver; to execute a gymnastic feat.

3. to inflict capital punishment on; put to death according to law.

4. to murder; assassinate. [emphasis added]

5. to produce in accordance with a plan or design: a painting executed by an unknown artist.

YMMV, indeed.

Your definition.

Just because you put a rock in the oven, it does not become a biscuit.

I have questioned your use of the word execute before referring to this.

Your handle and your attitude towards LEO illustrates your contempt.

Next time you need help, call a hippie.

Anygunanywhere

[Pacifist]

Your definition.

I used the same source you did, but if that's not good enough, feel free to change each usage of the word to one of its synonyms, "murder" or "assassinate."

[anygunanywhere]

Your definition.

I used the same source you did, but if that's not good enough, feel free to change each usage of the word to one of its synonyms, "murder" or "assassinate."

Umm, couldn't be the same source I used because I copied the whole thing and posted it.

Your definition of execute.

Anygunanywhere

[Pacifist]

Umm, couldn't be the same source I used because I copied the whole thing and posted it.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/execute?s=t

[texanjoker]

Umm, couldn't be the same source I used because I copied the whole thing and posted it.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/execute?s=t

If I recall an other thread this week on this topic somebody posted the nozzle looked like a gun, was not hooked to a hose and he pointed it at the officers. You can research that post if you want to read it.

[anygunanywhere]

Pacifist, if the officers are guilty of a crime then let the system work. If the system doesn't work, fix it. Continuing to label acts by LEO as executions will not change anything.

Anygunanywhere