XDS long guide rod allows contact shots if needed. Others?

[surprise_i'm_armed]

An interesting tidbit for all you Springfield Armory XDS owners is something I read in a gun
magazine review (can't remember which one, but it's currently on the shelves).

The reviewer noted that a "dealmaker" (as opposed to a dealbreaker) that should prompt people to buy an XDS
is that it has a long guide rod which allows a GG to press the gun directly against a BG and fire it.
This design allows the pistol to stay in battery.

The reviewer said that other semi-automatic pistols with full length guide rods would also allow contact shots,
but he didn't mention any other brands/models.

Until I read this XDS review, I only thought that revolvers could be fired in full contact with a threat.

Does anyone know what other semi-automatic pistols have such guide rods?

SIA

[G.A. Heath]

To simply assume that the guide rod in and of itself will allow this is pure folly. If you only make contact with the upper portion of the slide you can still have the pistol out of battery. If your attacker is sufficiently squishy (obese/fat/over weight) the weapon can also go out of battery. My advice never count on a pistol firing if pressed against the threat, in fact do not assume that a revolver will also function in that situation (they do malfunction and can be interfered with), actually don't assume ANY firearm will function ... ever. Any firearm with a full length guide rod will function just like the XDs in that situation. Such firearms include Glocks, Some 1911s, XD and XDm pistols, and just about every modern semi-auto made aside from the short (proper) length guide rod 1911s.

[jimlongley]

This brings to mind a thread from long ago about the same issue.

Way back in the old Navy a (young and foolish) bunch of us decided to try out this urban legend. Someone had been stating that if a BG had a 1911 up against your back, all you had to do was lean against it and it would go out of battery and not fire. Besides the simple observation that if someone had a gun to your back it would be pretty hard to tell exactly what it was, I knew, as ship's armorer, that the disconnector could fail to function properly and render such an attempt instantly fatal.

Several of us took turns with an unloaded .45 trying to get it to not fire when in contact with our bodies, and discovered that with a great deal of practice a success rate above zero could be accomplished, but also all it took for the BG to be able to fire was a twitch and a reset of the trigger.

Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? Not really. In the stress of such a situation, getting it right might buy you a very short delay, but it might not, and overall it's not a very effective tactic.

I believe long slide rods are mostly to keep springs from wandering from their appointed tasks.

[bdickens]

That sounds like hooey to me. I sure wouldn't want to bet my life on it.

Sound, proven technique beats supposition based on "trick" features every day in my book.

"Contact shooting" properly refers to shooting an assailant while your bodies are in contact with one another in a fight, not with the gun contacting the assailant's body.

Rob Pincus has a video demonstrating this technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKso6R10OJ0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RogueUSMC]

This brings to mind a thread from long ago about the same issue.

Way back in the old Navy a (young and foolish) bunch of us decided to try out this urban legend. Someone had been stating that if a BG had a 1911 up against your back, all you had to do was lean against it and it would go out of battery and not fire. Besides the simple observation that if someone had a gun to your back it would be pretty hard to tell exactly what it was, I knew, as ship's armorer, that the disconnector could fail to function properly and render such an attempt instantly fatal.

Several of us took turns with an unloaded .45 trying to get it to not fire when in contact with our bodies, and discovered that with a great deal of practice a success rate above zero could be accomplished, but also all it took for the BG to be able to fire was a twitch and a reset of the trigger.

Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? Not really. In the stress of such a situation, getting it right might buy you a very short delay, but it might not, and overall it's not a very effective tactic.

I believe long slide rods are mostly to keep springs from wandering from their appointed tasks.

I remember when we went from the 1911s to the M9s the M9 had a 'half cock' safety...if you shoved the barrel of the pistol back, the hammer cocked one notch and would not fire until you either run the slide or thumbed the hammer fully. I don't remember the 1911s doing the same thing.

[Pawpaw]

It is bull, promulgated by a moron that wants everyone to think he's smart.

Think about it... Is your barrel full-length? Doesn't it run all the way to the front of the slide??? How could a little guide rod, right below the barrel, possibly be the "one thing" that would help?

[The Annoyed Man]

I have had very limited exposure to these techniques (1 seminar at a forum day at PSC), but it seems to me that shooting from retention with the gun pulled back a bit from contact distance is the much better option. Blading the strong side away from the threat while stiff-arming or blocking with the weak side gives an opportunity to clear leather with the gun held tight in against the strong side and snap-shooting into the attacker's torso would seem to solve that problem. If my gun is in contact with the attacker's body, it is also within his reach to take it away from me. If he is bigger/stronger than I am, he may well accomplish that before I can fire. I'm not in favor of offering him that opportunity. All of this assumes of course that I am still on my feet.

Here is my worry if we're both down rolling on the ground at contact distance (not to mention what he can do to me): accidentally shooting myself. The solution is good situational awareness to keep it from happening in the first place.

All of that said, I can't see how a full length guide rod would make that big of a difference at contact distance. A standard 1911 with short guide rod keeps the rod and spring protected behind the bushing and spring cap under rearward motion, and there is nothing to interfere with the gun's return to battery. If the attacker is savvy enough, he can "press check" the slide out of battery without pushing on the muzzle anyway, whether or not the gun has a full length guide rod. I did one time witness my first karate instructor demonstrating how to disable a 1911 that was carried in Condition 2 or 3 by striking the muzzle with palm of hand, pushing the hammer back into half-cock. It did work, but that was back when I knew nothing about guns, and so I never asked him, "what if it is already Condition 0?" This was almost 10 years before the first Glocks were sold, and 1911s were a common choice for a semiauto pistol. Even so, that didn't account for .25 caliber Jennings and the like. I loved the martial arts, but I was never naive enough to think that being unarmed and in a close up fight with someone who had a gun was anything but a recipe for getting shot.

There used to be a YouTube video a guy made of himself proving that one could disable a Glock for a followup shot by firmly grasping the slide and frame while the gun was being fired, preventing the slide from cycling and chambering the next round. It worked, but he tore his hand up pretty good in the process of demonstrating it. It is not a technique I would want to rely on exclusively if I were on the receiving end of a potential GSW, but it did work. The lesson is that it would probably work on almost any gun. The problem of course is that, if you're on the receiving end, you've got to get shot once in order to apply it.

Far better and easier to simply not be in that time and place most of the time, live in Condition Yellow when I'm out and about, always trying to stack the odds in my favor before a situation develops.