Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

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rp_photo
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Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by rp_photo »

I hate to blame the victim, but she exhibited very poor judgement getting out of the car to confront them. And had she been carrying and shot any of them, I could see a lot of parallels to the Zimmerman case:

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/woman-bru ... ys-/nZfFy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by Cedar Park Dad »

To quote a certain movie with a fat Marlon Brando: "never get out of the boat."
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Re: Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by Tracker »

what if it's a car jacking? Someone passes you, and forces you to stop, while the car behind you blocks your escaping in your car? If you can't drive away then maybe you should get out, find cover, and be armed and ready.
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Re: Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by philip964 »

Yes continuing on to a point and calling 911, waiting for a police officer to arrive, then if they were still there, pointing them out to the police officer as the group that threw the bottle at her car would have been a better approach. She probably knows that now. However, innocent victims sometimes do not make the right decisions, when placed in a situation they did not cause.
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Re: Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by GlockDude26 »

i like how the end of the article said they were charged with ethnic intimidation..... if it was the other way around it would have been a hate crime and we all know what that stirs up.....
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Re: Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by rp_photo »

philip964 wrote:Yes continuing on to a point and calling 911, waiting for a police officer to arrive, then if they were still there, pointing them out to the police officer as the group that threw the bottle at her car would have been a better approach.
I would go as far as saying that a CHL is even more obligated to do that, as confronting them would be avoidable escalation.

Decades ago, confrontation might have made sense but not today.
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Re: Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by Cedar Park Dad »

If you think about it, stopping and getting out of your vehicle: what exactly is the good way that could end that people envision?
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Re: Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by rp_photo »

Cedar Park Dad wrote:If you think about it, stopping and getting out of your vehicle: what exactly is the good way that could end that people envision?
In a "Leave it to Beaver" world where kids respected adults and learned from their mistakes, it might have worked out fine.
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Re: Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by LAYGO »

If it was me that had the bottle thrown at, I'd attempt to get the police there asap. Be a good witness. Get license plates, descriptions, etc.

I'm sorry, it's not in my nature to watch someone else get beat. I couldn't do that as a bystander.
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Re: Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by Abraham »

She wasn't very bright in her response.

Female thugs aren't much different from male thugs - so what did she expect?

She should've kept driving and when it was safe, called the cops...
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Re: Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

This post may sound like I’m critical of those that are evaluating the wisdom of the woman getting out of call our, but that is not my intent. I am making a general observation about how far we have fallen as a society. Not one single post in this thread thus far has condemned the people who attacked is innocent woman. Rather, they have bolstered the concept that we as citizens should never stand up for ourselves for fear that criminals escalate the confrontation.

I view this woman situation markedly different from if the Frisco incident where a person was coming to the aid of a stranger. Why is it that as a society we have to tolerate criminal acts against us without taking any action for fear that the criminal will take offense? Thugs of all ages are emboldened by the knowledge that too many innocent victims will not resist simply out of fear – fear of escalating violence and fear that the legal system will brutalize them a second time.

Long before the Zimmerman shooting occurred, I became concerned about certain provisions in Texas self-defense laws that deprive a person of the right to self-defense, even when the person is facing imminent death or serious bodily injury. In light of the Zimmerman case, I am even more convinced that we must roll back Texas self-defense laws to where they were many decades ago.

Specifically, I’m talking about Tex. Penal Code §9.31(b)(4) that deprives a person of the right to preserve their own life if they provoked the other’s use of unlawful force or unlawful deadly force. At least in recent years, this provision has been used to deprive a person of the right to self-defense even if the provocation did not involve physical conduct. The Zimmerman case is a classic example, even though it did not occur in Texas. So too is the incident with a woman in Pittsburgh been beaten by teenage girls, although she never had a chance to defend herself.

The only legal question should focus on whether one person used or attempted to use unlawful force or unlawful deadly force against another person. If the answer to this question is yes, then deadly force should be justified regardless of any lawful acts on the part of the person defending himself/herself. These lawful acts include but are not limited to any verbal statements or walking where it is legal for them to do so. Verbal provocation alone is not sufficient to use force or deadly force and rightfully so. By the same logic, verbal provocation alone should not be sufficient to deprive one of the right to self-defense. Nor should getting out of one’s car to verbally confront someone who just vandalized your personal property or committed another illegal act against you or your property. What constitutes "provocation" is simply too uncertain and puts one in the position of being second-guessed by people who were not present and who may have an overriding political or societal agenda.

Texas law needs to be clear and direct. If you commit a crime against someone you do so at your own risk. If you escalate a confrontation to the point where a would-be victim is justified in using deadly force, then you do so at the risk of your own life.

Chas.
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Re: Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by Abraham »

I stand corrected - and am glad of it.

Thanks!
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Re: Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by bdickens »

rp_photo wrote:I hate to blame the victim, but she exhibited very poor judgement getting out of the car to confront them. And had she been carrying and shot any of them, I could see a lot of parallels to the Zimmerman case:

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/woman-bru ... ys-/nZfFy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow. So our society has now fallen so low that decent people are now obligated to tolerate not only rude behavior, but outright assaults?

There was a time when if kids were throwing bottles at someone's car, everyone within a block would have descended on the hooligans and corrected that behavior immediately. And harshly.

But now I suppose that good and decent folks are just supposed to bow their heads and meekly accept assaults on not only their dignity, but their very safety.

Disgusting.

I hate that you blame the victim, too.
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Re: Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by Cedar Park Dad »

bdickens wrote:
rp_photo wrote:I hate to blame the victim, but she exhibited very poor judgement getting out of the car to confront them. And had she been carrying and shot any of them, I could see a lot of parallels to the Zimmerman case:

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/woman-bru ... ys-/nZfFy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow. So our society has now fallen so low that decent people are now obligated to tolerate not only rude behavior, but outright assaults?

There was a time when if kids were throwing bottles at someone's car, everyone within a block would have descended on the hooligans and corrected that behavior immediately. And harshly.

But now I suppose that good and decent folks are just supposed to bow their heads and meekly accept assaults on not only their dignity, but their very safety.

Disgusting.

I hate that you blame the victim, too.
What is your recommended course of action? I am not seeing where getting out of the vehicle (in the bottle throwing scenario) leads to a legal outcome. What is the intent of getting out of the vehicle?
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Re: Leaving the car to confront troublemakers isn't smart

Post by rp_photo »

bdickens wrote:There was a time when if kids were throwing bottles at someone's car, everyone within a block would have descended on the hooligans and corrected that behavior immediately. And harshly
Exactly right, in the "Leave it to Beaver" or "Father Knows Best" universe. Or perhaps in the real world if the perps were known to you or otherwise low-risk, such as children in your own community, etc.
bdickens wrote:But now I suppose that good and decent folks are just supposed to bow their heads and meekly accept assaults on not only their dignity, but their very safety.

Disgusting.

I hate that you blame the victim, too.
Putting one's self in greater danger to get the "last word" or "preach" doesn't seem that wise to me. The term "Dead right" comes to mind.

You are pretty much dealing with feral animals in these situations and need to protect yourself accordingly.
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