So.. on the upcoming election...

matchstick · Post by **matchstick** » Thu May 31, 2007 10:02 pm

Ron Paul for me.

mr surveyor · Post by **mr surveyor** » Thu May 31, 2007 10:41 pm

Fred Thompson

kauboy · Post by **kauboy** » Thu May 31, 2007 11:43 pm

Paul was my choice, then I found out he is a total coward and isolationist.

Its Fred Thompson for me too!!!!

Thane · Post by **Thane** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:56 am

Russell wrote:How is he a coward and isolationist? What did he do?

I don't think Ron Paul is a coward, no. I don't think he has good judgment or wisdom.
His stance on the war on terror seems to be "be nice and hope they go away." Regardless of the ideological foundations of that stance, the end effect is the same - pull out of Iraq/Mid-East, and you'll have more terror and chaos both abroad and at home. It's isolationist, and it doesn't work.
He also seems to be open borders (which is odd to me, as that's decidedly NOT isolationist, and is thus inconsistent with his Iraq stance, at least in that sense). As maddening and frustrating as Dubya's being on this point, what I've read of Paul's writings is worse. Again, this is a foolish stance, as it effectively negates our ability to function as a country - militarily, economically, legally, and socially.
He is also a little too rabid in his wishes to "scale back" the federal government. While I agree with that principle, he comes across as a "crazy fundamentalist" in his approach, and quite easily scares a LOT of people off. I don't think he's done much thinking about exactly HOW to convince other people of his beliefs, instead trying to browbeat them Because He's Right.
In short, he's too dogmatic in his libertarianism, and refuses to allow the possibility of being wrong. What I have seen/heard/read of his writings and policy stances, he really hasn't done much critical examination of the foundations of his beliefs. He's too focused on the ideals themselves, forgetting the reasons those ideals exist.
He may be a good man, but I don't want him as President.

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Fred Thompson isn't exactly what I want as President, but he's the closest one to my beliefs out there that stands an icicle's chance in El Paso of being elected. He has his flaws, yes, but so did Reagan. I've been wanting him to run ever since I first heard his name bandied about and started looking into his record.

(Besides, the only way I'd get a candidate who agrees with me on everything would be for me to run, and I'm too young, Constitutionally

)

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:52 am

Touchy subject...I totally understand...

Lemme give you guys and gals a little advice (political)...

In my experience in this arena, I often tell people I don't care who you vote for...Nope I'm not that crase, I really do care that you vote...

I happen to judge the polls in my precinct and have gotten to know most of the folks in my precinct pretty good...We are all used to seeing each other...

What I am getting at is do not listen to a word I say about any candidate or measure...

Do your own research, make up your own mind...Don't listen to the dunderheads on TV news or any editorial...Find out the facts from a more diverse source, learn to read between those lines and make up your own mind...The more informed you are, and your ability to sieve through the goop that is getting worse and worse each election cycle, you'll be a more informed voter, with tremendous voting strength, because I believe voter apathy (voters that don't participate in the process) is at an all time high...

Obviously this forum that has brought us together hits upon a hot button issue with all of us...And regardless if you fall to the Democrat party or Republican party, or something in between or on the fringes...

The next series of elections will define what goes down for the next 20 years I suppose...

Especially at risk is our inalienable, individual right to keep and bear arms...

All that other stuff...That stuff is gravy...

Just one thing you should keep in mind...

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:41 am

kauboy wrote:Paul was my choice, then I found out he is a total coward ...

Dr. Paul served in the U.S. Air Force.

Moderators, is this kind of invective allowed? Because I might have something to say about certain draft-dodgers and liars.

- Jim

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:57 am

seamusTX wrote:
kauboy wrote:Paul was my choice, then I found out he is a total coward ...
Dr. Paul served in the U.S. Air Force.

Moderators, is this kind of invective allowed? Because I might have something to say about certain draft-dodgers and liars.

- Jim

Patience Grasshopper...

This is probably why we don't have a dedicated "Political" discussion thread directory...Occasionally we get these discussions, and I don't think they are bad to introduce from time to time...

It would take away from the main focus of the forum obviously...But I'm preaching to the choir, right???

Venus Pax · Post by **Venus Pax** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:33 am

Does the thread really need to be locked? Just get back on the topic of candidates' stances on RKBA.

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:21 am

Ron Paul is neither a coward, nor an isolationist. His plan is not "be nice and hope they'll go away". Anyone who believes that has spent too much time reading the pundits, and too little reading Ron Paul.

Pat Buchanan --who happens to support Ron Paul-- is an isolationist. He believes in using tariffs and trade restrictions to outlaw competition and give U.S. companies a government-enforced advantage. Paul, on the other hand, is a free marketeer. He opposed NAFTA and CAFTA because they are not "free trade". They are "managed trade", and as Ross Perot pointed out, if it takes 10,000 pages of legalese (and hundred of bureaucrats) to define, it ain't free trade!

I was amused at the comment that Ron Paul is in favor of open borders. In the libertarian community, he is criticized as too statist, because he advocates tight borders and American sovereignty. He's very critical of the Bush immigration plan, or any kind of amnesty.

pbandjelly · Post by **pbandjelly** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:33 am

so far, I like Fred Thompson. I mean, he WAS the DA on Law & Order!!!

John · Post by **John** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:53 pm

If I had to vote today and Fred Thompson were in the mix, I would vote for Fred Thompson. I really need to study them all more though.

Sticking to the issue of Gun Control (hate saying that because it normalizes the phrase, maybe "gun friendliness" or "Gun Rights"is a better phrase), does any one have enough knowledge of the top candidates to rate them in order of best to worst?