Deputy busted for selling illegal gun permits

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:28 am

txinvestigator wrote:... if the instructor does not include the required time, tests or any other aspect, the relevant students will be revoked.

Where is the burden of proof? Is there an administrative hearing?

I can read GC Â§411.186, but the procedure isn't clear to me.

- Jim

jimlongley · Post by **jimlongley** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:00 pm

Paladin wrote:I feel sorry for the folks that will get their license's revoked,

Boy, I don't. OTOH, in our class we spent time filling our paperwork out, and getting fingerprinted and photographed, and I would be very perturbed if I lost my CHL due to that, I might even have to consider some sort of legal action against the instructors and facility.

I am an NRA instructor and one of my work acquaintances became aware of this and wanted to know if I could "qualify him for CHL without having to go through that stupid class?" He would gladly pay me and etc.

I informed him that not only would I not do that but that if I found out that he had accomplished it in that manner I would turn him and his "instructor" in.

We parted on less than cordial terms, and since I no longer work there, I have no awareness of what he's up to.

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:25 pm

jimlongley wrote:
Paladin wrote:I feel sorry for the folks that will get their license's revoked,
Boy, I don't. OTOH, in our class we spent time filling our paperwork out, and getting fingerprinted and photographed, and I would be very perturbed if I lost my CHL due to that, I might even have to consider some sort of legal action against the instructors and facility.

I am an NRA instructor and one of my work acquaintances became aware of this and wanted to know if I could "qualify him for CHL without having to go through that stupid class?" He would gladly pay me and etc.

I informed him that not only would I not do that but that if I found out that he had accomplished it in that manner I would turn him and his "instructor" in.

We parted on less than cordial terms, and since I no longer work there, I have no awareness of what he's up to.

Lots of first timers don't really know what the law is. So if the class is cut short, they may not be aware of the issue.

Of course if they selected the instructor because they didn't want to go through the class, then they probably deserve what they get.

Seburiel · Post by **Seburiel** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Supposing that one of the students attended the course without intending to cheat the system? should they have their licensing yanked? What if it was one of the rare times when he actually taught the whole class? should someone who went for the entire 10-15 hrs be punished for this man's mistake?

zigzag · Post by **zigzag** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:43 pm

Most instructors go into this business bec its very easy money and less work. Its a no brainer. WE who got our license must police these yahoos and report to DPS AUstin. Let say u have a friend taking the class as first timer, ask them if the instructor really follow whats stipulated by law . Filling of the paperworks is not part of the 10 hr mandatory didactics which is the core of the CHL. I bet theres a bunch who would be out of CHL instructor licenses.

pbandjelly · Post by **pbandjelly** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:46 pm

zigzag wrote:Most instructors go into this business bec its very easy money and less work.

uh, that's a pretty broad generalization, don'tcha think?
I'm sure the many instructors here might disagree with you on that point.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:21 pm

Seburiel wrote:Supposing that one of the students attended the course without intending to cheat the system? should they have their licensing yanked? What if it was one of the rare times when he actually taught the whole class? should someone who went for the entire 10-15 hrs be punished for this man's dumb mistake?

I think only those students who DPS could identify as not getting the complete class would be revoked. I have no idea on who the burden of proof lies. I imagine the class completion lists would be where DPS would start its investigation. It would be easy to establish the facts from there.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:21 pm

pbandjelly wrote:
zigzag wrote:Most instructors go into this business bec its very easy money and less work.
uh, that's a pretty broad generalization, don'tcha think?
I'm sure the many instructors here might disagree with you on that point.

Here is one.

Post by **Crossfire** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:36 pm

zigzag wrote:Most instructors go into this business bec its very easy money and less work. Its a no brainer.

Really? I must be doing something wrong.

Lucky45 · Post by **Lucky45** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:37 pm

Seburiel wrote:Supposing that one of the students attended the course without intending to cheat the system? should they have their licensing yanked? What if it was one of the rare times when he actually taught the whole class? should someone who went for the entire 10-15 hrs be punished for this man's dumb mistake?

Your comment is understandable, but I think the outcome has to be as required by DPS.

It all goes back to the integrity of the system. Like any piece of plastic flashed around on a daily basis, it is only valuable as the TRUST in its existence. So, if you have someone who was licensed to uphold the integrity of the licensing procedure by training and examining applicants, and they decide to cheat the system and get caught in the act TWICE. Then, it would be fairly difficult to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the majority of his students did not payoff the instructor to get their certificate. So, the ONLY FAIR way to not taint the pool of valid CHL licenses is to revoked his existing log of students.

para driver · Post by **para driver** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:53 pm

DPS has a list of those he qualified and will undoubtedly contact them, to offer a 'free' make up class or whatever is required to make them legal.

Imagine the uproar if one of his 'celebrity' students is involved in a shooting and this comes up during the trial. It's another case of the 1 bad apple stinking up the barrel.

zigzag · Post by **zigzag** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:04 pm

llwatson wrote:
zigzag wrote:Most instructors go into this business bec its very easy money and less work. Its a no brainer.
Really? I must be doing something wrong.

Well, watch out , benign newbies in your class can be DPS informers.

Post by **Crossfire** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:11 pm

zigzag wrote: Well, watch out , benign newbies in your class can be DPS informers.

Watch out? For what? You think because one CHL instructor is a bad apple, then we all are? I go back to my original assessment.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:13 pm

para driver wrote:DPS has a list of those he qualified and will undoubtedly contact them, to offer a 'free' make up class or whatever is required to make them legal.

Why do you think that?

DPS doesn't teach classes for individual license holders.

I think someone who took an honest class from the guy should be alright. Anyone who applied without actually taking the class could be in a lot more trouble than just having their license revoked. They committed perjury and made false statements.

Remember, one of the affidavits states that you understand everything in the white book, and that includes knowing that the class and proficiency test are required.

- Jim

jbirds1210 · Post by **jbirds1210** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:17 pm

Let's all please remember that we are discussing an issue....not how we may feel about each other.