Nevada Rancher Standoff

[EEllis]

If your neighbor's cattle graze on your land you can't steal them and haul them off.

Well it isn't stealing when you go to court and get a judgement saying you can take the cattle now is it?

[mojo84]

If your neighbor's cattle graze on your land you can't steal them and haul them off.

Well it isn't stealing when you go to court and get a judgement saying you can take the cattle now is it?

Courts are never wrong?

What about the conflicts of interest that are involved? Did the courts take those into consideration?

[EEllis]

From the government website. This is a cached snapshot. Those of you that are trying to claim the government didn't make a claim about the tortoise, you are wrong.
http://archive.today/nvlzr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A Claim? What claim? It doesn't say that Bundy's lease was revoked because of the tortoise. It lists damage to the habitat as occurring because of someone who doesn't even have a lease anymore and that "The Center for Biological Diversity has demanded action to resolve trespass in designated critical desert tortoise habitat in several letters." They did notify BLM that they would sue to make the BLM remove the cattle but they aren't the "government"

Twist it however you want. It was on the BLM website as one of the justifications the government used to justify their actions and it directly counters your comment that Bundy is the one that originally made the assertion it was about a tortoise. I understand you love to argue and you and the government are never wrong a even when it's obvious you are. I'll let it go at that as it is obvious to any objective person that the government was determined to remove the man and his cattle. I do find it interesting they removed the page from their website.

Now, how about the part where the actions of the government further enrich Reid's family? Is that not worthy of being addressed? Is it no big deal since he is part of the all righteous government?

One people are claiming the cattle are being removed because of the tortoise and while Bundy isn't making that claim his supporter are and while it list the tortoise as a factor it also lists the cows going on a golf course as a factor. Trying to claim Bundy was shut down because of turtles is just bull.

Honestly I think the Reid thing is a separate issue. If the Bundy thing ends up shinning a light on his activities and gets Reid in trouble it would be great! But I( don't think bad behavior by Reid means Bundy gets to graze his cattle for free.

[Cedar Park Dad]

If your neighbor's cattle graze on your land you can't steal them and haul them off.

Well it isn't stealing when you go to court and get a judgement saying you can take the cattle now is it?

Courts are never wrong?

What about the conflicts of interest that are involved? Did the courts take those into consideration?

The court has no conflict of interest here. If you think it does then you must think every organ of the federal government is some monolithic entity out to destroy us all. Thats not how real life works.

[EEllis]

If your neighbor's cattle graze on your land you can't steal them and haul them off.

Well it isn't stealing when you go to court and get a judgement saying you can take the cattle now is it?

Courts are never wrong?

What about the conflicts of interest that are involved? Did the courts take those into consideration?

He doesn't have a leg to stand on legally speaking! Great if this is a protest and he wants to draw attention to his issue but his arguments have virtually no legal merit. The judge can only rule based on the arguments presented and his was the federal government is illegal and it's not Fed land so I can do what I want. I'm sorry but he will lose in every court in the land with that argument.

[puma guy]

If your neighbor's cattle graze on your land you can't steal them and haul them off.

Well it isn't stealing when you go to court and get a judgement saying you can take the cattle now is it?

I don't appreciate you condescension one bit and find it highly offensive. If you disagree with me that's fine, just say so. I don't need your little pokes.

[Jim Beaux]

The court has no conflict of interest here. If you think it does then you must think every organ of the federal government is some monolithic entity out to destroy us all. Thats not how real life works.

I bet Catherine Engelbrecht wished this were true. She has been harassed multiple times by OSHA, ATF, FBI and the IRS.

That’s when Jordan stepped in to make a simple but effective point.

“Ms. Engelbrecht,” Jordan said, “in the first 20 years of business, did OSHA ever visit your place of business?”

“No sir,” she responded.

“Never once?”

“No sir.”

“After you filed the [tax-exempt application for King Street Patriots], OSHA visited then, right?”

“Yes sir.”

“In the first 20 years of business did the [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives] ever come to your business?” Jordan continued.

“No sir.”

“And they came a couple times once you filed your application?”

“Yes sir.”

“And in your first 20 years of business, did the IRS ever audit you?”

“No sir.”

“But once you filed your application, they audited you?”

“Many times.”

“And in your first 20 years of business, did the FBI ever visit you?”

“No sir.”

“But once you filed your application, did they visit you?”

“Six times.”

Jordan made his final point: “Mr. Connolly wants us to believes that’s all a coincidence.”

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02 ... any-of-it/

[RoyGBiv]

The court has no conflict of interest here. If you think it does then you must think every organ of the federal government is some monolithic entity out to destroy us all. Thats not how real life works.

It's not an unreasonable/tinfoil assumption any more (as Jim Beaux illustrates)... Tragically.
However, I would substitute "pushing the Progressive agenda down our throats" instead of "out to destroy us all".

[baldeagle]

If your neighbor's cattle graze on your land you can't steal them and haul them off.

Well it isn't stealing when you go to court and get a judgement saying you can take the cattle now is it?

The naivete is astounding. The Supreme Court ruled that the IRS penalties in Obamacare are a tax, thus, for the first time in our history, allowing the government to fine you for NOT doing something.

I'm sure you're fine with that too. After all, the court has ruled.

They also ruled in the Dred-Scott case, if you will recall, and I'm pretty sure the majority of Americans would say that ruling was wrong.

[baldeagle]

t's not an unreasonable/tinfoil assumption any more (as Jim Beaux illustrates)... Tragically.
However, I would substitute "pushing the Progressive agenda down our throats" instead of "out to destroy us all".

That's a distinction without a difference.

[RoyGBiv]

[baldeagle]

20 years of abuse of the Constitution does not justify stealing a man's property.

It was never his property.

I was referring to his cattle, which are most certainly his property.

Unless you no longer believe in America, this is a seminal moment in our history.

Only if you don't believe in the rule of law.

I don't believe in the abuse of the rule of law. Just because there is a law doesn't make the law right nor its enforcement right. Unconstitutional laws are passed every day. Are we required to obey them like automatons with no intelligence?

The outcome of this fight may well determine if we remain a free people or are forced to live under tyranny because we refused to fight.

Seriously? Because whats effectively a welafare queen won't pay to graze his land? Thats nonsensical.

You should be ashamed of yourself for calling Bundy a welfare queen. The government is trying to drive him out of business and he is resisting.

And it looks like there is going to be a fight, and there is going to be bloodshed. http://www.libertynews.com/2014/04/bund ... -picks-up/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Strangely, if you threaten federal officers they respond like you mean it.

Over-respond, you mean.

What happens after that is anybody's guess. This could be the lighting of the fuse or it could be another in a long line of abuses by an out of control government that the people continue to tolerate, to their detriment.

LIght the fuse. You sound like you're loooking forward to a fight. Others have tried that. Didn't work out for Shay or the Confederates. Won't work out for anyone who takes up arms against the US.

You may no longer believe in freedom, but some of us do. The Declaration of Independence clearly states that we have the right as free men to abolish any government that becomes abusive of its powers. Your belief that this is an impossibility was not shared by our forefathers, who took on the most powerful government in the world and defeated it. In that revolution, 90% of the population sat on their hands while 10% did the heavy lifting. It appears the same will be true today.

[mojo84]

If your neighbor's cattle graze on your land you can't steal them and haul them off.

Well it isn't stealing when you go to court and get a judgement saying you can take the cattle now is it?

Courts are never wrong?

What about the conflicts of interest that are involved? Did the courts take those into consideration?

The court has no conflict of interest here. If you think it does then you must think every organ of the federal government is some monolithic entity out to destroy us all. Thats not how real life works.

I didn't say the courts have a conflict of interest. Don't put words in my mouth. I asked if the courts knew about the conflict of interest that existed.

You guys are as bad as the progressives about twisting things to suit your argument. It's obvious you both play in the arena for a living and see nothing wrong with twisting what people say. It is all about winning the argument rather than getting to the facts and what is right.

I never said Bundy shouldn't have to pay or he is totally in the right. I have a problem with how the government responded. You guys can twist it and play it however you want. It's obvious the government has something to hide and a lot of it is bad decision making on their part. Otherwise, they would not have removed their web page that explained their position. If he was "trespassing" why wasn't he arrested years ago and dealt with accordingly.

I'm done with you government and cops are always right fanboys.

[EEllis]

If your neighbor's cattle graze on your land you can't steal them and haul them off.

Well it isn't stealing when you go to court and get a judgement saying you can take the cattle now is it?

I don't appreciate you condescension one bit and find it highly offensive. If you disagree with me that's fine, just say so. I don't need your little pokes.

That isn't a poke. How else can you say it. It might be all kind of other things but it just is not stealing.

[bayouhazard]

All I have to say about this is "The enemy of my enemy is..."