Post office sign

Venus Pax · Post by **Venus Pax** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:24 pm

Not to

, but I was hoping some of you might want to comment on this sign posted to the right of the door at a post office entrance.

[/list]

GaryTx · Post by **GaryTx** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:26 pm

Looks to me they don't want guns in the post office.

hi-power · Post by **hi-power** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:51 pm

That is one crappy-looking sign. They didn't even footnote the correct title of U.S. Code - 19 USC deals with Customs and Tariffs. 18 USC deals with Crimes and Criminal Procedures.

TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS

Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in
Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in
a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to
do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1
year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be
used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be
present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or
attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not
more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of
subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal
facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or
attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided
in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to--
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer,
agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political
subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or
supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution
of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a
Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession
is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility,
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not
more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in
paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the
United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders
regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within
any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any
grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term ``Federal facility'' means a building or part
thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their
official duties.
(2) The term ``dangerous weapon'' means a weapon, device,
instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is
used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily
injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a
blade of less than 2\1/2\ inches in length.
(3) The term ``Federal court facility'' means the courtroom,
judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney
conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court
clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal,
probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court
of the United States.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be
posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility,
and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each
public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be
convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a
Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility,
unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the
case may be.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:04 pm

hi-power wrote:That is one crappy-looking sign. They didn't even footnote the correct title of U.S. Code - 19 USC deals with Customs and Tariffs. 18 USC deals with Crimes and Criminal Procedures.

TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS

Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in
Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in
a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to
do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1
year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be
used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be
present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or
attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not
more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of
subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal
facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or
attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided
in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to-- (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer,
agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political
subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or
supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution
of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a
Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession
is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility,
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not
more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in
paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the
United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders
regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within
any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any
grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term ``Federal facility'' means a building or part
thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their
official duties.
(2) The term ``dangerous weapon'' means a weapon, device,
instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is
used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily
injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a
blade of less than 2\1/2\ inches in length.
(3) The term ``Federal court facility'' means the courtroom,
judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney
conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court
clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal,
probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court
of the United States.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be
posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility,
and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each
public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be
convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a
Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility,
unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the
case may be.

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:25 pm

hi-power wrote:That is one crappy-looking sign. They didn't even footnote the correct title of U.S. Code - 19 USC deals with Customs and Tariffs. 18 USC deals with Crimes and Criminal Procedures.

Not to mention, 18 USC 930 does not apply to post office property!

See:
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/modules. ... age&pid=96

Post office carry is prohibited by a rule, 39 CFR 323.1. The maximum penalty for violating 39 CFR 232.1 is a $50 fine, 30 days in jail, or both.

Whoever had that sign made up didn't have a clue.

anygunanywhere · Post by **anygunanywhere** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:56 pm

What sign?

pbandjelly · Post by **pbandjelly** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:20 pm

KBCraig wrote:
Post office carry is prohibited by a rule, 39 CFR 323.1. The maximum penalty for violating 39 CFR 232.1 is a $50 fine, 30 days in jail, or both.

Whoever had that sign made up didn't have a clue.

it says 39 CFR on the bottom right corner.

so, no revolvers in the P.O. huh?

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

"Be vewy vewy quiet. I'm huntin' bad guys."

frankie_the_yankee · Post by **frankie_the_yankee** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:50 pm

So all I need to see now is a statement from a US Attorney's office here in TX that a private citizen carrying on a TX CHL falls under Section d and that no attempt will be made to prosecute such persons, and I'll carry in post offices in comfort and confidence.

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:57 pm

anygunanywhere wrote:What sign?

What he said, and what others have highlighted and bolded to better emphasize...

I don't think I have heard of a test case yet on this aspect...

But someone once said that that darn 39 CFR 232 (l) keeps rearing its head...

Good thing I don't frequent the post office though...Never really had to worry about this...

age_ranger · Post by **age_ranger** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:19 pm

No guns in teh parking lot either? Wow, they're really stretching that one now. Someone's anti-gun propaganda has made it to the doors of the post office...what next?

RHZig · Post by **RHZig** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:52 am

According to my limited knowledge on CH laws.......................

Someone just answer yes or no.....

Can I carry my CH past that sign? I learned that 30.06 had to be properly posted.

flintknapper · Post by **flintknapper** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:04 am

age_ranger wrote:No guns in the parking lot either? Wow, they're really stretching that one now. Someone's anti-gun propaganda has made it to the doors of the post office...what next?

According to the text, even the pocket knife I carry daily is a violation (blade over 2-1/2").

NcongruNt · Post by **NcongruNt** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:48 am

RHZig wrote:According to my limited knowledge on CH laws.......................

Someone just answer yes or no.....

Can I carry my CH past that sign? I learned that 30.06 had to be properly posted.

No one can give you that answer, because it doesn't exist. There is no case law to definitively answer this question. As TXI posted, the law states that carry is allowed for "other lawful purposes", but doesn't define these purposes. As we carry for "lawful purposes" under Texas state law, the federal government might not consider that a valid argument.

Federal facilities and property are governed under federal law, and the requirement for 30.06 doesn't apply there.

kauboy · Post by **kauboy** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:49 am

Well, I was looking for the wonderful analysis on TheGunZone.com about carrying in a Post office, but at the URL that normally contains the information, I found this.

Does anybody have any idea what this clause might be for? Good thing... bad thing??? Anybody know?

mrbug · Post by **mrbug** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:14 am

My take on the Post Office is, don't carry there. One can debate the validity or correctness of a sign all day long. The message I get loud and clear is they don't want my side arm and by extension me in their facility.