19 yr old girl and 15 yr old boy

[jimlongley]

When I was in the Navy and just before my 20th birthday, I developed a relationship with a girl that was over 18. In NY state, at that time, the age of consent for females was 18, and for males was 21. Sitting in the parking lot of the volunteer fire department that I belonged to, just chatting I swear, one of our more over enthusiastic local LEOs pulled up behind us, determined to catch us doing something wrong. Of course it being a small town, he knew both of us, and after he IDed us (for what reason I don't know) he stated that if he so chose he could take HER in for statutory rape.

He became a little embarrassed when I pointed out several things, the first being that he was on fire department property, and that being a member (although not "active" due to my military status, something he didn't mention) I was in control of the property and he was essentially trespassing, and that it being just after midnight, if he had just paid attention to my military ID and driver's license, he would realize that I was now 21, so even if he had proof that we were doing what he alleged we were doing, he was still wrong.

[mojo84]

Keith, See page 26 of this. Adolescent Guide - Texas Department it State Health Services


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... bP9iwuZAvw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GlockDude26]

I know when i was 15 if I could have gotten with a 19 year old girl one word comes to mind.....respect......of course I was smarter back then and no babies came into the picture

[Keith B]

Keith, See page 26 of this. Adolescent Guide - Texas Department it State Health Services


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... bP9iwuZAvw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yep, I don't disagree. Under 17 is sexual assault defined and chargeable in TPC 21.011 and 21.11. I have never disputed that. HOWEVER, if the person IS 17, then 45.31 can come into play. It can also be an additional charge on top of the sexual assault charge if the person is under 17. And as shown in the case law, it does not have to be a 'performance', just conduct.

[mojo84]

Like you said, we are going to have to agree to disagree as I think you are taking a part of the law out of context and applying it in a situtation in which it does not apply.

[Keith B]

Like you said, we are going to have to agree to disagree as I think you are taking a part of the law out of context and applying it in a situtation in which it does not apply.

We will have to do that. Case law shows it does apply and that is why I stand firm.

[mojo84]

OK, this is my last post on this. Here is case law for you that addresses the legal age of consensual sex in Texas and Aldo the statute you keep pointing to which deals with the sexual exploitation of children by adults and not consensual sex between two consenting partners. Notice it is from the Texas Supreme Court.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-supreme-c ... 27849.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Legislature has passed a number of statutes providing greater protection against sexual exploitation for underage children. For example, promotion of prostitution involving an adult, without the use of force, threat, or fraud, is a misdemeanor. Compelling a child under eighteen to commit prostitution, however, is treated as a crime equivalent to using “force, threat, or fraud” to compel an adult to commit prostitution, and is a second-degree felony. Tex. Penal Code §§ 43.03,.05.1 Similarly, sexual assault of a child under fourteen is considered “aggravated sexual assault” and is subject to the same consequences as the rape of an adult involving serious bodily injury or other aggravating circumstances. Tex. Penal Code §§ 22.011, .021; see also Tex. Penal Code § 43.25(e) (imposing harsher penalties for inducing a child under fourteen to engage in sexual conduct or performance); Tex. Penal Code § 20A.02 (imposing harsher penalties for trafficking a child under eighteen for purposes of compelling prostitution or sexual performance). In passing these statutes, the Legislature has expressed both the extreme importance of protecting children from sexual exploitation, and the awareness that children are more vulnerable to exploitation by others even in the absence of explicit threats or fraud.
It is difficult to reconcile the Legislature's recognition of the special vulnerability of children, and its passage of laws for their protection, with an intent to find that children under fourteen understand the nature and consequences of their conduct when they agree to commit a sex act for money, or to consider children quasi-criminal offenders guilty of an act that necessarily involves their own sexual exploitation. In the context of these laws, and given the blanket adoption of the Penal Code into the Family Code, it is far more likely that the Legislature intended to punish those who sexually exploit children rather than subject child victims under the age of fourteen to prosecution. See Helena Chem. Co. v. Wilkins, 47 S.W.3d 486, 493 (Tex.2001). Given the longstanding rule that children under fourteen lack the capacity to understand the significance of agreeing to sex, it is difficult to see how a child's agreement could reach the “knowingly” standard the statute requires. Because a thirteen-year-old child cannot consent to sex as a matter of law, we conclude B.W. cannot be prosecuted as a prostitute under section 43.02 of the Penal Code. See Duby v. State, 735 S.W.2d 555, 557 (Tex.App.-Texarkana 1987, pet. ref'd) (holding that the minor victim of incest is not an accomplice since she is incapable of giving consent as a matter of law); but cf. Bolin v. State, 505 S.W.2d 912, 913 (Tex.Crim.App.1974) (holding that the father could not be convicted of incest based solely upon uncorroborated testimony of thirteen-year-old prosecutrix who, under longstanding caselaw, was considered an accomplice witness in the absence of threats, force, fraud, or undue influence).2
- See more at: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-supreme-c ... RnwyD.dpuf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Keith B]

OK, this is my last post on this. Here is case law for you that addresses the legal age of consensual sex in Texas and Aldo the statute you keep pointing to which deals with the sexual exploitation of children by adults and not consensual sex between two consenting partners. Notice it is from the Texas Supreme Court.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-supreme-c ... 27849.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Legislature has passed a number of statutes providing greater protection against sexual exploitation for underage children. For example, promotion of prostitution involving an adult, without the use of force, threat, or fraud, is a misdemeanor. Compelling a child under eighteen to commit prostitution, however, is treated as a crime equivalent to using “force, threat, or fraud” to compel an adult to commit prostitution, and is a second-degree felony. Tex. Penal Code §§ 43.03,.05.1 Similarly, sexual assault of a child under fourteen is considered “aggravated sexual assault” and is subject to the same consequences as the rape of an adult involving serious bodily injury or other aggravating circumstances. Tex. Penal Code §§ 22.011, .021; see also Tex. Penal Code § 43.25(e) (imposing harsher penalties for inducing a child under fourteen to engage in sexual conduct or performance); Tex. Penal Code § 20A.02 (imposing harsher penalties for trafficking a child under eighteen for purposes of compelling prostitution or sexual performance). In passing these statutes, the Legislature has expressed both the extreme importance of protecting children from sexual exploitation, and the awareness that children are more vulnerable to exploitation by others even in the absence of explicit threats or fraud.
It is difficult to reconcile the Legislature's recognition of the special vulnerability of children, and its passage of laws for their protection, with an intent to find that children under fourteen understand the nature and consequences of their conduct when they agree to commit a sex act for money, or to consider children quasi-criminal offenders guilty of an act that necessarily involves their own sexual exploitation. In the context of these laws, and given the blanket adoption of the Penal Code into the Family Code, it is far more likely that the Legislature intended to punish those who sexually exploit children rather than subject child victims under the age of fourteen to prosecution. See Helena Chem. Co. v. Wilkins, 47 S.W.3d 486, 493 (Tex.2001). Given the longstanding rule that children under fourteen lack the capacity to understand the significance of agreeing to sex, it is difficult to see how a child's agreement could reach the “knowingly” standard the statute requires. Because a thirteen-year-old child cannot consent to sex as a matter of law, we conclude B.W. cannot be prosecuted as a prostitute under section 43.02 of the Penal Code. See Duby v. State, 735 S.W.2d 555, 557 (Tex.App.-Texarkana 1987, pet. ref'd) (holding that the minor victim of incest is not an accomplice since she is incapable of giving consent as a matter of law); but cf. Bolin v. State, 505 S.W.2d 912, 913 (Tex.Crim.App.1974) (holding that the father could not be convicted of incest based solely upon uncorroborated testimony of thirteen-year-old prosecutrix who, under longstanding caselaw, was considered an accomplice witness in the absence of threats, force, fraud, or undue influence).2
- See more at: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-supreme-c ... RnwyD.dpuf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, this is related to the prostitution sections of TPC 45. I still contend that if a person 18 or over engages in sexual conduct with a person age 17 they can be charged and prosecuted under TPC 43.25(b) as it says 'conduct OR sexual performance'

[victory]

the below is the brief info i can find, however my concern is...
a 19 yr old girl is cohabiting with a 15 year old boy at her mothers house, they moved in with the mother and step dad in January
the 19yr old becomes "with child" when the boy is 15, and the 19 yr old is about to turn 20 in two months.
the boy just turned 16 last month, but baby is due in oct.
the only people in this debacle that knew the boy was 15, was the girl, the boy and her mother. The husband is the girls stepfather. The mother and daughter and little boy, kept the secret from the husband and his daughter who is 13.
this revelation was revealed this past weekend and the husband is a little P.O.ed, but IMO he is just as guilty for not questioning the boys age.
the two sponges I like to call them as they don't work or contribute to the household are now in new mexico with the girls biological dad and his girlfriend. He states that in new mexico the law lets the grandmother who is the legal guardian of boy, give her permission to let the 19 year old and the 15 year old SHACK UP if you will.
My question is many
does granny now liable for child prostitution or exploitation of a minor?
did the 19 yr old hold captive the 15 yr old and sexually molest/rape him?
is 19 yr old mother just as guilty for withholding the truth about age?
is the step dad equally liable?
meanwhile the state of texas has been giving the 19 yr old free prenatal care and ebt?
shouldn't EBT be notified they are out of state now and the possible
should calls be made to the new mexico leo or child protection services?
thanks






What is the Age of Consent?
TX Legal Age of Consent, 2013 and 2014

The Age of Consent is the age at which a person is deemed by Texas law to be capable of consenting to, and engaging in, sexual acts. Anyone who engages in sexual activity of any type with a partner under the applicable Age of Consent is breaking the law and can be charged with crimes ranging from a misdemeanor to a felony (statutory rape) depending on the jurisdiction in which they are prosecuted. Texas's specific laws on the Age of Consent can be found above.
What happens if I violate the Texas Age of Consent?

If you engage in sexual activity with a minor who is under the Texas Age of Consent of 17, you can be prosecuted under Texas sexual abuse laws and charged with crimes ranging from sexual assault to first degree rape, regardless of whether or not the sexual acts were consensual. Depending on the charges, conviction can carry penalties ranging from one to fifty years in prison and registration as a sex offender.
What happens if I travel to a state where the Age of Consent is lower?

In most states, the travel or transportation of a minor over state lines with the intention of engaging in sexual activity is in itself a severe misdemeanor or felony. As a result, it is generally not possible to evade a state's age of consent rules by travelling to a different state.

If they are out of state and getting Texas benefits, I would report them for the welfare fraud. As a Texas taxpayer, I don't have any obligation to pay for deatbeats in New Mexico.

I will let people who care about the Kardashian drama worry about that.

[VMI77]

Texas -The age of consent is 17. The minimum age is 14 with an age differential of 3 years; thus, those who are at least 14 years of age can legally have sex with those less than 3 years older.

Sorry, incorrect. A person MUST be 18 period. Here is a link to the law. See section 43.25 http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.43.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Want to add, they cannot be charged with sexual assault for the guidelines you stated above, but sexual performance of a child applies to anyone under 18. here is the rape section in 22.011 http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.22.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Review definition of "performance" in 43.25 and you'll see it only applies to under-18 sex that is somehow shown/exhibited to an audience. Would not apply to OP's case as I understand it ( unless I missed something)

Yep, you missed it

Sec. 43.25. SEXUAL PERFORMANCE BY A CHILD. (a) In this section:
...........................
(2) "Sexual conduct" means sexual contact, actual or simulated sexual intercourse, deviate sexual intercourse, sexual bestiality, masturbation, sado-masochistic abuse, or lewd exhibition of the genitals, the anus, or any portion of the female breast below the top of the areola.
.............................................................................
(b) A person commits an offense if, knowing the character and content thereof, he employs, authorizes, or induces a child younger than 18 years of age to engage in sexual conduct or a sexual performance. A parent or legal guardian or custodian of a child younger than 18 years of age commits an offense if he consents to the participation by the child in a sexual performance.

In the case of the 19 yo, she is guilty of 43.25. If the parents were aware the boy was under 18, and they were allowing the conduct, then they are guilty as well.

One thing to note, while this is the law, it is RARELY enforced in these cases of two teens consenting. It is extremely hard to prosecute because you have to get all of the participants to incriminate themselves and then convince a judge and/or jury to convict.

Thankfully, it also says:

(f) It is an affirmative defense to a prosecution under this section that:

(3) the defendant is not more than two years older than the child.

I don't think we should be making felons out of children who are more or less the same age having sex.

[mamabearCali]

I don't approve......but then again my great grands married when she was 15 and he was 17. I don't see this as much different. I also don't see the point of giving them criminal records for something that is obviously consensual (perhaps not in a legal sense, but they ran away to be with each other). They obviously want to be together. There is not a power differential, the age gap is less than my parents. Anyway.

Perhaps this is one of those times where discretion should be used.

[nightmare]

I don't approve......but then again my great grands married when she was 15 and he was 17. I don't see this as much different. I also don't see the point of giving them criminal records for something that is obviously consensual (perhaps not in a legal sense, but they ran away to be with each other). They obviously want to be together. There is not a power differential, the age gap is less than my parents. Anyway.

Perhaps this is one of those times where discretion should be used.

Outrage over teenagers having sex?

However, I agree with the suggestion to get their handouts cut off, especially if they left Texas.

[powerboatr]

Again
thank you all for some very insightful discussion
after two days and an evening conferring with counsel on my level of liability or risk, plus the now three nights of not very good sleep.
my beliefs about child molestation and abuse havent changed in as long as I can remember, I find those who exploit children to be the worst of our people.
that being said, on advice and internal struggles,
I first must protect my grandchild and ensure she is in my custody.
then the chips may fall where they may with son, daughter in law(DIL), daughter in laws ex husband, his girlfriend, the boys grandmother and the step granddaughters grandmother in new mexico. I also learned from the DIL that the ex husbands mother is dating the sheriff of rio rancho, so i have serious qualms about what and if any thing will take place in new mexico. But since the child and the adult where brought across state lines twice...the FBI may be involved.

Frankly my counsel increased my pucker factor two fold. Once this Gennie flys out of the bottle, i fear life for son, may never be what i was, and all relationships in a positive form will be dissolved in his regard.

[Oldgringo]

A 19 year old girl and a 15 year old boy, eh? That resurrects memories of way yesteryear. She was a Senior and I was a Freshman - nearly 60 years ago. I wonder whatever became of her?