After all my years of shooting handguns, you'd think I know the answer to this question.....oh, well
I understand, basically, how locked breech semi-autos work, but once the barrel has unlinked from the slide, what brings the slide forward again to link up with the barrel? It looks like to me that the recoil spring underneath the barrel would just pull the barrel forward, not the slide. Does the slide have another spring that powers it forward again to link up with the barrel?
Also, it looks to me like blow-back operation with a fixed barrel would offer the potential for more reliability and better accuracy. But, does it really offer these advantages in real-world operation?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Crash
recoil-operated (locked breech) semi-auto operation
Moderator: carlson1
- Middle Age Russ
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1402
- Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am
- Location: Spring-Woodlands
Re: recoil-operated (locked breech) semi-auto operation
The recoil spring acts on the slide to bring it forward into battery. While the slide moves forward, the barrel breach is cammed back upwards and slightly forward to mate properly with the slide.
Blowback operated guns have a potential for greater accuracy IMO due to the fixed barrel, but keep in mind that many of them have a reciprocating slide that carries one or both sights and it can introduce sight to barrel alignment inaccuracies just like most recoil-operated guns exhibit. This sort of inaccuracy is usually not an issue at shorter ranges for most shooters, though. As for reliability, with fewer moving parts a blowback operated gun should be marginally more reliable than a recoil-operated gun (all else being equal). In actual practice not all is equal and recoil operated guns often have a sterling record of reliability. YMMV, of course.
Blowback operated guns have a potential for greater accuracy IMO due to the fixed barrel, but keep in mind that many of them have a reciprocating slide that carries one or both sights and it can introduce sight to barrel alignment inaccuracies just like most recoil-operated guns exhibit. This sort of inaccuracy is usually not an issue at shorter ranges for most shooters, though. As for reliability, with fewer moving parts a blowback operated gun should be marginally more reliable than a recoil-operated gun (all else being equal). In actual practice not all is equal and recoil operated guns often have a sterling record of reliability. YMMV, of course.
Russ
Stay aware and engaged. Awareness buys time; time buys options. Survival may require moving quickly past the Observe, Orient and Decide steps to ACT.
NRA Life Member, CRSO, Basic Pistol, PPITH & PPOTH Instructor, Texas 4-H Certified Pistol & Rifle Coach, Texas LTC Instructor
Stay aware and engaged. Awareness buys time; time buys options. Survival may require moving quickly past the Observe, Orient and Decide steps to ACT.
NRA Life Member, CRSO, Basic Pistol, PPITH & PPOTH Instructor, Texas 4-H Certified Pistol & Rifle Coach, Texas LTC Instructor
- AJSully421
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:31 pm
- Location: SW Fort Worth
Re: recoil-operated (locked breech) semi-auto operation
I think that your confusion is the same that I had long ago. When you look at the whole top end while it is off the frame, the cut out in the barrel is what is holding the recoil assembly in place. Once you pop that slide on the frame, there is a "shelf" in the frame that the spring is sitting on and pushing off of, it is no longer being held by the slide/barrel like it is when the slide is removed.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964
30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.
NRA, LTC, School Safety, Armed Security, & Body Guard Instructor
30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.
NRA, LTC, School Safety, Armed Security, & Body Guard Instructor
Re: recoil-operated (locked breech) semi-auto operation
Strictly speaking, yes (or at least that's my understanding... I am not a gunsmith...). It's not done much with anything stronger than a .380 though, because of how strong the recoil spring has to be to prevent, um, "gas-assisted" early ejections.Crash wrote:Also, it looks to me like blow-back operation with a fixed barrel would offer the potential for more reliability and better accuracy. But, does it really offer these advantages in real-world operation?
I am not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, nor should anything I say be taken as legal advice. If it is important that any information be accurate, do not use me as the only source.
- jimlongley
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6134
- Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:31 pm
- Location: Allen, TX
Re: recoil-operated (locked breech) semi-auto operation
Hi Point made blowback operated pistols in .45ACP and down. Uzis and MP40s are blowback, the Pedersen device, used to fire a pistol size cartridge from a 1903 Springfield riflewas blowback, M19 Grenade launchers, Ruger 10/22s, and a variety of others. Just sayin'.Dave2 wrote:Strictly speaking, yes (or at least that's my understanding... I am not a gunsmith...). It's not done much with anything stronger than a .380 though, because of how strong the recoil spring has to be to prevent, um, "gas-assisted" early ejections.Crash wrote:Also, it looks to me like blow-back operation with a fixed barrel would offer the potential for more reliability and better accuracy. But, does it really offer these advantages in real-world operation?
Real gun control, carrying 24/7/365
- Jumping Frog
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5488
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:13 am
- Location: Klein, TX (Houston NW suburb)
Re: recoil-operated (locked breech) semi-auto operation
Don't forget that the front of that spring is set against the slide. That barrel moves back slightly until it locks. The slide keeps going back.Crash wrote:...but once the barrel has unlinked from the slide, what brings the slide forward again to link up with the barrel? It looks like to me that the recoil spring underneath the barrel would just pull the barrel forward, not the slide.
When the slide reaches its travel limit, the spring pushes against the locked barrel and the front of the slide to push the slide forward.
When the slide is almost all the way forward, its momentum carries the (then unlocked) barrel forward and into battery.
Here is an illustration of a striker fired version:
http://www.genitron.com/Basics/Interactive-Glock-Pistol" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This illustration contrasts the difference with a pistol that does not use the tilting barrel locked breech mechanism originally designed by Browing. Note here the recoil spring is placed between the frame and the front of the slide, not the barrel. The barrel never moves.
http://www.genitron.com/Basics/Interact ... tta-Pistol" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Finally, here is a nice illustration of M1911 assembly and operation:
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=E6SmlOEzNBs[/youtube]
-Just call me Bob . . . Texas Firearms Coalition, NRA Life member, TSRA Life member, and OFCC Patron member
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ