How I convince kids to accept gay ‘marriage’, starting at 4

[VMI77]

I'm shocked by all of the homeschooling that is going on these days. Social interaction and interpersonal skills are some of the most valuable attributes in life and in a career. There are enough things (like social media) that keep humans from interacting like they once did. I can't imagine limiting a child's ability to learn how to get along with others in life.

I'm not bashing anyone that does and I understand some of the reasoning, but I wonder what the world is going to be like when all of these homeschooled kids have no social skills and are running the world in 30-40 years.

Well, if there were enough homeschoolers to make a difference it would be a better world. Personally I'm sick and tired of the no social skills canard. All of the homeschooled kids I've ever encountered have social skills that are far superior to their public school counterparts. My kids had plenty of friends, all of whom attended public school, and we're involved in a number of activities outside the home. Most people who homeschool associate with homeschool groups who have regular get togethers.

I'll put my homeschooled kids and the majority of other homeschooled kids up against these mythical public school kids with such wonderful social skills anytime.

[TVGuy]

I'm shocked by all of the homeschooling that is going on these days. Social interaction and interpersonal skills are some of the most valuable attributes in life and in a career. There are enough things (like social media) that keep humans from interacting like they once did. I can't imagine limiting a child's ability to learn how to get along with others in life.

I'm not bashing anyone that does and I understand some of the reasoning, but I wonder what the world is going to be like when all of these homeschooled kids have no social skills and are running the world in 30-40 years.

Well, if there were enough homeschoolers to make a difference it would be a better world. Personally I'm sick and tired of the no social skills canard. All of the homeschooled kids I've ever encountered have social skills that are far superior to their public school counterparts. My kids had plenty of friends, all of whom attended public school, and we're involved in a number of activities outside the home. Most people who homeschool associate with homeschool groups who have regular get togethers.

I'll put my homeschooled kids and the majority of other homeschooled kids up against these mythical public school kids with such wonderful social skills anytime.

I didn't advocate public schools either. My wife and are at the point where we are discussing the possibility of kids in our future (we are not that young). If we go down that road we would not be sending our kids to a public school, especially in Dallas.

[ScooterSissy]

And this has to do with the Texas CHL Forum how?

Well, that's why it's in the 'off-topic' category.

I don't think it's such a bad thing. I watched a documentary on teaching young kids acceptance of other races. I don't see how this is any different.

Keep in mind that whatever your view on the subject, it's not the school's job to teach religious values. The parents of the children are more than capable of doing that themselves.

Nor is it the schools job to teach against religious beliefs.

[ScooterSissy]

And this has to do with the Texas CHL Forum how?

Well, that's why it's in the 'off-topic' category.

I don't think it's such a bad thing. I watched a documentary on teaching young kids acceptance of other races. I don't see how this is any different.

Keep in mind that whatever your view on the subject, it's not the school's job to teach religious values. The parents of the children are more than capable of doing that themselves.

As I said: I actually find what is being indoctrinated of less concern than the tactics being used....group shaming, the standard tactic of Alinsky trained leftists --used on children in Kindergarten. The tactics being used are not appropriate. They're more Mao's cultural revolution than traditional American or even Western European. This is one side of an issue telling the other side that it won't be allowed to exist unless it renders complete unmitigated agreement and forcing it upon children that don't yet have fully developed cognitive function. The racial analogy is questionable. Race is genetically fixed. While I lean towards genetic determination for homosexuality it is by no means generally accepted, even by more rational leftist feminists like Camile Paglia. The transgender stuff is a choice.

Also, the indoctrination isn't about tolerating or accepting or not discriminating against people who are born a certain way --if you accept genetic determination for homosexuality-- it is for accepting specific choices those people make like gay marriage. It's one thing to accept a person for being the way he is and recognizing that some things are beyond his control; it's an entirely different thing to expect everyone to accept the choices that person makes.

The classroom didn't shame the new classmate until he did something that was offensive to both the teachers and those who had become accepting of the teacher's lifestyle. He essentially insulted the teacher. I'm sure something similar would have happened had the child made a racist remark.

I also disagree with you in that this is, in fact, similar to teaching kids to not be racist. While I myself am straight, I do not believe that it's completely a choice. Whether it be nature or nurture, outside forces can and will impact your psyche. It's not something they can wake up and 'decide' to not be. Same goes for transgender people. I know I'm definitely in the minority on this subject in this forum, given the traditional views of the majority of people who support gun rights. As far as the marriage being a choice, sure it is. But seeing as I don't think your sexual preference is 100% your own choice either, that point is more of a pursuit of happiness that everyone else has.

All of this, of course, boils down to society's acceptance of gay marriage, or lack thereof. I heard an argument supporting open carry that I will apply here. Instead of asking "why should it be legal?" ask yourself "why should it be illegal?" I haven't heard any arguments that didn't boil down to religion, personal values, or "it makes people uncomfortable."

In the mean time, let's teach our kids to be accepting of all orientations, even though some people may object. Just as it was in the 50's and 60's when people were taught to be accepting of other races, even though some people objected.

It is my sexual orientation to desire to mate with as many females as I find attractive that will allow me. Would you be comfortable (if I were a teacher) advocating acceptance of poly-amorous relationships to students?

[TVGuy]

And this has to do with the Texas CHL Forum how?

Well, that's why it's in the 'off-topic' category.

I don't think it's such a bad thing. I watched a documentary on teaching young kids acceptance of other races. I don't see how this is any different.

Keep in mind that whatever your view on the subject, it's not the school's job to teach religious values. The parents of the children are more than capable of doing that themselves.

Nor is it the schools job to teach against religious beliefs.

I'm not sure where schools are teaching against religious beliefs. I haven't heard any stories along those lines.

[ScooterSissy]

I'm shocked by all of the homeschooling that is going on these days. Social interaction and interpersonal skills are some of the most valuable attributes in life and in a career. There are enough things (like social media) that keep humans from interacting like they once did. I can't imagine limiting a child's ability to learn how to get along with others in life.

I'm not bashing anyone that does and I understand some of the reasoning, but I wonder what the world is going to be like when all of these homeschooled kids have no social skills and are running the world in 30-40 years.

It's misguided to think that homeschooled kids have "no social interaction". We have many homeschooled kids at our church, they interact there, and in many other situations. One family had various kids enrolled in interscholastic athletics (that family had 10 kids, all of them homeschooled). School is not the only social interaction available to kids.

[ScooterSissy]

And this has to do with the Texas CHL Forum how?

Well, that's why it's in the 'off-topic' category.

I don't think it's such a bad thing. I watched a documentary on teaching young kids acceptance of other races. I don't see how this is any different.

Keep in mind that whatever your view on the subject, it's not the school's job to teach religious values. The parents of the children are more than capable of doing that themselves.

Nor is it the schools job to teach against religious beliefs.

I'm not sure where schools are teaching against religious beliefs. I haven't heard any stories along those lines.

If a public school has a teacher that says there is nothing morally wrong with same-sex marriage to children who have been taught by their parents that same-sex marriage is morally wrong, and against their religious beliefs - then the teacher is indeed teaching against religious beliefs.

[TVGuy]

I'm shocked by all of the homeschooling that is going on these days. Social interaction and interpersonal skills are some of the most valuable attributes in life and in a career. There are enough things (like social media) that keep humans from interacting like they once did. I can't imagine limiting a child's ability to learn how to get along with others in life.

I'm not bashing anyone that does and I understand some of the reasoning, but I wonder what the world is going to be like when all of these homeschooled kids have no social skills and are running the world in 30-40 years.

It's misguided to think that homeschooled kids have "no social interaction". We have many homeschooled kids at our church, they interact there, and in many other situations. One family had various kids enrolled in interscholastic athletics (that family had 10 kids, all of them homeschooled). School is not the only social interaction available to kids.

First, I never said school is the only opportunity for socialization. Second, the vast majority of high value jobs in this country now and increasingly so moving forward are going to be knowledge based. Working to solve problems in groups is a key aspect of this. You're not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours (nor am I trying to). The fact is even with this extra-curricular socialization, the homeschooled kids are not exposed to anywhere close to the same amount of socialization as children that are in traditional schools.

This is why some people do it, I get that. I'm just saying that I personally would not homeschool a child because of this. I'm not in any way criticizing one's decision to do so though. "It's not what you know, it's who you know"

[ScooterSissy]

I'm shocked by all of the homeschooling that is going on these days. Social interaction and interpersonal skills are some of the most valuable attributes in life and in a career. There are enough things (like social media) that keep humans from interacting like they once did. I can't imagine limiting a child's ability to learn how to get along with others in life.

I'm not bashing anyone that does and I understand some of the reasoning, but I wonder what the world is going to be like when all of these homeschooled kids have no social skills and are running the world in 30-40 years.

It's misguided to think that homeschooled kids have "no social interaction". We have many homeschooled kids at our church, they interact there, and in many other situations. One family had various kids enrolled in interscholastic athletics (that family had 10 kids, all of them homeschooled). School is not the only social interaction available to kids.

First, I never said school is the only opportunity for socialization. Second, the vast majority of high value jobs in this country now and increasingly so moving forward are going to be knowledge based. Working to solve problems in groups is a key aspect of this. You're not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours (nor am I trying to). The fact is even with this extra-curricular socialization, the homeschooled kids are not exposed to anywhere close to the same amount of socialization as children that are in traditional schools.

This is why some people do it, I get that. I'm just saying that I personally would not homeschool a child because of this. I'm not in any way criticizing one's decision to do so though. "It's not what you know, it's who you know"

No, you did not use the term "only opportunity for socialization", but you did say "I can't imagine limiting a child's ability to learn how to get along with others in life" and more importantly, summarized with (in part) "I wonder what the world is going to be like when all of these homeschooled kids have no social skills". The implication seemed pretty clear that you feel homeschooled children will have "no social skills". That view is simply incorrect.

I will agree completely that children that are improperly homeschooled (and there are definitely a lot of these) often have poor social skills (and a poor education); however, I will also say those that are improperly educated in public schools have equally poor social skills, though maybe "poor" in a different way (knowing how to "party hardy" is really not a social skill, in my opinion) and poor educations.

There was once a time when public school systems typically offered a better educational option for kids than parents trying to teach them at home. However; (again, in my opinion) the massive move to bigger "industrialized" public school systems, with top-heavy administration (and costs), and a constant desire to "expand" (often at the expense of the students) have diminished the quality of that education. At the same time, advances likes personal computers and the internet, as well as support organizations for those that home school have improved the quality of home schooling. Thus the gap between the two has narrowed, and in some cases disappeared or reversed.

And no, I'm not under any illusions that you're likely to change your mind (even though you might), but I think it's more than fair to offer a counter viewpoint. That's what a public forum is all about, no?

[karder]

Using tax dollars to socially condition children in the indoctrination camps we call public schools is one of the main reasons our country is in the peril it is. Whether it is the gay agenda, climate change or revisionist history, it seems that the school system, through pressure from the Department of Education, has drifted far away from the 3 Rs. With common core it doesn't matter if you are right, just that you are thinking in the right way. A key component of the progressive movement.

I am very dubious of this new push toward group learning. Every time I have even been involved in a group project it always seems that one or two people are doing the project while everyone else is grouping. Group learning is just a clever way of raising scores by allowing the slower kids to be propped up by the smart kids.

[cb1000rider]

Just to be clear, we shouldn't be allowed to teach anything about the possibility of climate change to our children? I realize that it's a sensitive political topic, but unlike the "gay agenda" there's actually quite a bit of science in the background. Generally speaking, I'm good with teaching my children what mainstream science figures out. I don't want the politics taught, but I do want the science taught - it's a key to critical thinking. Otherwise, we'd all be stuck teaching our children that the world is flat and that the sun revolves around the earth, which were very unpopular ideas at one time.


I don't want a progressive agenda, but I don't want an educational system that only teaches the values of any particular political or social group. If I want specific values taught, I recognize that I'll have to pay for an education that provides those values specifically and that's fine...

[karder]

The fact the world is flat is demonstrably provable. Climate change, despite what Washington preaches, is a theory proposed by a group of scientists who receive millions of federal dollars to study climate change theory and its causes. Talk about having an agenda. If I were being paid millions to study Bigfoot and his threat to society, you bet I would be very open to his existence and threat level.

If I were to accept evolutionary scientific theory, I would believe that the world has been through no fewer than 17 ice ages and that we are currently on the backside of a 50,000 year cycle where the earth's climate is warm and balmy. Major dramatic shifts in the earth's climate are completely normal to these same group of thinkers who tell us that unlike in the past, this time it is man's fault.

Group of federally funded scientists declare that despite the above evolutionary "facts", the earth is now heading toward major and significant climate change not brought on by natural causes, but by man's own activities. They support these claims because they have about 50 years worth of satellite data that they use to theorize and reconcile 4.5 billion years (if you believe that the earth is that old) worth of theorized weather.
I guess I am a bumpkin, but nope, I don't believe that scientists have anywhere near the data needed to predict climate change on a worldwide basis, much less the origin of that change.

Climate change theory, in this bumpkin's opinion is like throwing a virgin into a volcano. The tribe elders tell frightened villagers, if you don't do X,Y and Z the volcano god will be angry and kill us all. In our modern world scientists tell us if you don't do X, Y and Z mother earth will get angry and kill us all...and science. It is social control. That what it was on the islands and that is what it is today. I am not interested in Texas children being taught unless they use public transportation mother earth will eat them.

You probably don't want to know what I think about the gay marriage mafia so I will spare you.

[MechAg94]

I am very dubious of this new push toward group learning. Every time I have even been involved in a group project it always seems that one or two people are doing the project while everyone else is grouping. Group learning is just a clever way of raising scores by allowing the slower kids to be propped up by the smart kids.

I agree with you about group work. A kid can learn a lot more real world social skills through team sports and/or drama type activities. Those focus on personal performance as well as group performance. I don't think working in groups does that near as well.

Either way, group work can be done through Boy Scouts and homeschool groups just as easily.

[VMI77]

I'm shocked by all of the homeschooling that is going on these days. Social interaction and interpersonal skills are some of the most valuable attributes in life and in a career. There are enough things (like social media) that keep humans from interacting like they once did. I can't imagine limiting a child's ability to learn how to get along with others in life.

I'm not bashing anyone that does and I understand some of the reasoning, but I wonder what the world is going to be like when all of these homeschooled kids have no social skills and are running the world in 30-40 years.

It's misguided to think that homeschooled kids have "no social interaction". We have many homeschooled kids at our church, they interact there, and in many other situations. One family had various kids enrolled in interscholastic athletics (that family had 10 kids, all of them homeschooled). School is not the only social interaction available to kids.

First, I never said school is the only opportunity for socialization. Second, the vast majority of high value jobs in this country now and increasingly so moving forward are going to be knowledge based. Working to solve problems in groups is a key aspect of this. You're not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours (nor am I trying to). The fact is even with this extra-curricular socialization, the homeschooled kids are not exposed to anywhere close to the same amount of socialization as children that are in traditional schools.

This is why some people do it, I get that. I'm just saying that I personally would not homeschool a child because of this. I'm not in any way criticizing one's decision to do so though. "It's not what you know, it's who you know"

It's hard for me to characterize the remark in red as anything other than absurd. Are these information based jobs going to require a college education? Then how are these kids going to escape whatever kind of socialization you're talking about in college? One of my sons tutored public school kids of all ages in math and high school kids in the SAT and was very much in demand. He also tutored English at the college level. He graduated from college and interned at a nuclear power plant. The other is in law school and is about as social as you can get. He speaks Chinese and has interned for two different companies in China and he never spent one single day in a classroom until he started taking college classes. Neither has been hindered by any kind of socialization problem. OTOH, none of their supposedly socialized public school peers appears to be benefiting from any of these "skills" you refer to. And very few of the public or private school students they encountered in college as undergraduates appeared to have any skills that went much beyond alcohol consumption and fornication.

As an engineer I happen to work in one of those knowledge based jobs you're talking about and I have absolutely no idea where you get the idea that problems are solved in groups that require some kind of school only acquired socialization skills (then again, engineers aren't exactly celebrated for their social skills no matter where they went to school). I suppose there are some jobs where problems are solved in groups but I've never worked on a problem as part of a group in the 30 plus years I've been in this industry. I also have absolutely no idea what kind of socialization skills you think are only imparted in a public or private school unless the skills you're talking about are conformity and obedience. I went to public school, in California and Texas, and I certainly didn't acquire or see anyone else acquire some kind of school only skill like you keep referring to. If you're talking about military school....OK, I can see that to some degree, just like I can see the benefits of having been in the military...but regular school....not buying it.

My wife also went to public school and has nothing but contempt for what a complete waste of time that experience was. I, by contrast, had a wonderful time in high school but I can't say I learned much of anything, and excelling was incredibly easy. Most of what I learned I learned on my own time, and I was less than impressed with most of my teachers. I encountered perhaps five truly educated and competent teachers in high school that were good enough that I remember them fondly to this day. Granted, I attended a small high school....32AA...but we had a lot more than five teachers. Some of them were astoundingly ignorant, especially the history teachers. Some were perhaps intelligent enough, but nothing impressive, and just very poor teachers.

You keep talking about some kind of social skill that you apparently believe can only be acquired in a traditional classroom and having seen both sides of the equation I have no idea what you're referring to unless it has something to do with conformity and obedience. If that's what you're talking about I concede your point. Otherwise I'm at a loss. Personally, I had no interest in raising obedient conformists.

[VMI77]

I am very dubious of this new push toward group learning. Every time I have even been involved in a group project it always seems that one or two people are doing the project while everyone else is grouping. Group learning is just a clever way of raising scores by allowing the slower kids to be propped up by the smart kids.

You nailed it. That's the way study groups work too. Usually the smart person is educating the dummies --if the group has a smart person that doesn't get tired of spending hours to do what he could do by himself in 30 minutes. For a group to do better than what a single smart person can do on his own it has to be composed of people who are roughly equal in intelligence, knowledge, and experience. Furthermore, in my experience as an engineer, it is really only intelligence that matters to other engineers....we care about the right answers, not the facility with which they are delivered. I couldn't care less if someone is a jerk or lacking in supposed social skills if he's smart and delivering results. I might not hang out with him after work but it doesn't interfere with getting the job done. It seems to me that it's the people in the non-technical fields who are overly concerned about the social graces.