The person who answered, claims to have interviewed a survivor of the 276th Volksgrenadier Division
Americans: "Enthusiastic amateurs with a disposition to aggression I'd never seen in any other nation's sons." If there was something he noticed different between Americans and the other European Allies, it was how they reacted to an attack. The other allies would immediately return fire and edge their way to a more favorable position. Americans would immediately return fire, bring a punishing rain of artillery or air power on top of whatever they were fighting, and move to counterattack as soon as the rain of death ended. While he did not believe that an American infantryman or tanker was particularly skilled compared to British or German counterparts, they more than compensated for it with sheer, unadulterated, unapologetic combat aggression.
I don't have any comments or observations I care to share, but I thought it was interesting, and thought some of you might also.
One of my good friends Dad was a German soldier in WWII. He lost his entire family and school mates to allied bombing raids and was drafted at age 16, given a uniform and a rifle and sent to fight in the Battle of the Bulge. He talked mainly about the artillery barrages and how many people were killed. He said his unit was going back toward Berlin and they would go past German units that had been totally destroyed by US artillery. He was captured by US forces and survived to old age. His buddies that were captured by the Soviets were all executed. He loves the Americans.
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"War is Chaos, and the reason why the American Army excels at War is because they practice Chaos on a daily basis."
- a German General during debriefing at the war's end.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
"... bring a punishing rain of artillery or air power on top of whatever they were fighting, ..."
I remember reading Bill Mauldin, the Willy and Joe cartoonist, talking about this in one of his books that I read when I was a kid. I can't remember if he talked directly to some captured Germans, or to the Americans who captured them, but Mauldin was commenting about the difference in logistics and philosophy and the material the US Army had in abundance: the gist of it was that the where the Germans would a patrol, the Americans would send artillery shells, which astounded the Germans were shells were expensive and had to be conserved in their army.
And somebody beat me to the quote about chaos. I read a fuller explanation some place about how from the German point of view, the Germans knew American fighting doctrine, but the Americans didn't, so they didn't follow it, so the Germans could never predict what they were going to do next!
howdy wrote: ...He was captured by US forces and survived to old age. His buddies that were captured by the Soviets were all executed. He loves the Americans.
When I was stationed in Germany with a NATO unit, I knew quite few German officers that were in their 50s, had been teenagers at the end of WWII. If they weren't already in American held territory, they got there as soon as possible.
I guess this diverges a bit from the OP but like Howdy's friend...the father of one of my fellow Boy Scout and high school classmate was also drafted at age 16 right at the end of the war. He was in an all-boys school when the SS came looking for recruits. They walked them under a horizontal pole held at 6', and anyone who bumped his head on it was considered SS material. My classmate's dad was a bit over 6' so the SS told him they would come get him the following day. He knew he didn't want to be in the SS at that point in the war because he would probably die in battle in a war already lost, so his headmaster arranged for him to join the Luftwaffe the same day. I forget his exact job, I think he supposed to be a mechanic, but the Luftwaffe was pretty much out of airplanes by then so instead they gave him a rifle and sent him to the eastern front (which was pretty close by then) -- so he had to go to battle anyway. He was eventually captured by the Soviets at the end of the war and they started marching all the German POWs to Russia in a huge column. He ducked out of line at a turn in the road and made it back to the American zone. Eventually emigrated to the US, became a citizen, and an Professor of Germanic Studies at Indiana University.
Funny - a corollary to that is what an US Army major told me about 10 years ago, after having lived in Germany for a while:
The Germans will create clubs (car, hobbies, whatever) more for the purpose of having something, *anything* upon which to start constructing a dizzying array of rules that you must follow - to the point that that's more the focus of the club than the original subject matter it was originally founded for.
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howdy wrote:One of my good friends Dad was a German soldier in WWII. He lost his entire family and school mates to allied bombing raids and was drafted at age 16, given a uniform and a rifle and sent to fight in the Battle of the Bulge. He talked mainly about the artillery barrages and how many people were killed. He said his unit was going back toward Berlin and they would go past German units that had been totally destroyed by US artillery. He was captured by US forces and survived to old age. His buddies that were captured by the Soviets were all executed. He loves the Americans.
My own long-departed (mid-70s) Dad was in the Army artillery at the Battle of the Bulge. Unfortunately he did not talk much about it and I was too young to press him so I can only say "thanks for this post which reminds me of my wonderful Pop".
Jago668 wrote:I ran across this awhile back, and running across this thread it seems to fit. Hope ya'll enjoy.
Heh. That is good.
When I was in college I took some military history courses, aside from my AFROTC ones, and one thing that came through is that the US Army has been big on artillery since before the Civil War (and the Army has long seen airplanes as flying artillery). There are more glamorous branches that get made into movies and popular histories and such, but when you dig into, artillery, especially lighter-weight mobile artillery, got used a lot. Even chasing in chasing the Mexicans during the time between the Texas annexation and the civil war. An artillery battery that could gallop into position, get unlimbered, and start putting accurate fire on a target was much prized by field commanders.
American military personnel are trained to follow their CO's commands, but if independent
action is needed, an American will be creative and rise to the occasion. American pilots
during the age of dogfighting could maneuver as they saw fit. Commie pilots would
be more likely to wait for instructions from someone in command on the ground.
Artillery is "The King of Battle" and is taught at Fort Sill, OK. I knew a Marine officer who was
in the reserves, but since he was always TDY (Temporary Duty) it was like he was active duty.
His job was to direct the fire of artillery units. He told me something that is quite obvious when
you hear it, but I had never been schooled in artillery tactics, so it was news to me.
The artillery unit he directed had 3 subunits of 6 artillery pieces each, for a total of 18.
They could be accurately aimed so that their shells could reach any configuation of enemy troops.
When an artillery barrage is planned, each artillery piece is loaded but they all wait to fire the first
volley simultaneously. That's because the very first volley of 18 shells is most likely to catch enemy
troops in the open, inflicting great carnage. After the first volley it's "fire for effect", which I believe
means "fire as fast as you can."
During the Battle of the Bulge, which began 16 December 1944, the Germans were using their artillery
in "air burst" mode. The shells would fell major limbs of trees, or the whole top of trees, inflicting many
casualties on Allied troops below.
The Germans had a lot of problems with duds in their ordanance because the slave laborers at the
shell factories would purposely sabotage the effectiveness of what they were producing. IIRC, the
German high command never put their finger on the problem.
One of my schoolmate's dads was in WWII US artillery. In those days they didn't appear to use any
ear protection. His dad's hearing was shot and he always used to speak to people in a very loud voice.
SIA
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The Annoyed Man wrote:"War is Chaos, and the reason why the American Army excels at War is because they practice Chaos on a daily basis."
- a German General during debriefing at the war's end.
IIRC, that was Field Marshal Gerd Von Runstedt.
Pretty neat thread and original topic. My Dad served in a Field Artillery Battalion, 155 Long Toms and had the dubious distinction of going from Normandy to Czechoslovakia, with interesting stops offs in St. Vith and Remagen. He too didn't have a great deal to say about the war, other than observations that he had been to one place or another in Europe.
Jeff B.
Don’t ever let someone get away with telling you that no one wants to take your guns. - Joe Huffman
surprise_i'm_armed wrote:When an artillery barrage is planned, each artillery piece is loaded but they all wait to fire the first
volley simultaneously. That's because the very first volley of 18 shells is most likely to catch enemy
troops in the open, inflicting great carnage. After the first volley it's "fire for effect", which I believe
means "fire as fast as you can."
SIA
SIA, in the past decade or so, some of those tactics have been upgraded a bit. Some of the more modern gun systems are able to loft multiple GPS-guided shells sequentially from a single gun tube, but at different angles, so that they all arrive on the exact same point simultaneously. They can fire at greater range, with greater accuracy than the old systems. So instead of 20 rounds blanketing an area the size of a couple of football fields, you get 4 rounds landing within a 10 yard radius at the same moment in time.
The OP quote seems a little gratuitously complimentary so it makes me wonder if a German soldier actually made it. However I do see a lot of truth in it and it does make one proud to be an American, no matter who said it.
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