Open Carry in Texas - Applying for License

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:59 pm

Seburiel wrote:Well, alrighty then, now I go to look up what constitutes travelling :-)

Nobody knows. It's a conundrum, a riddle wrapped in an enigima, etc.

In other words, it's not a reliable justification for carrying. It might work. It might not.

- Jim

agdude · Post by **agdude** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:00 pm

Traveling is anything... going to the grocery store or the other side of the state. That means there is not bull about having to cross county lines, or stay over night... you just have to be legal to own a firearm, it has to be concealed, you can't be committing a crime, can't be in a criminal gang. Basically if you are not breaking the law, you can have a concealed handgun in your vehicle all the time

Seburiel · Post by **Seburiel** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:05 pm

hmm...

BadCo45ACP · Post by **BadCo45ACP** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:06 pm

seamusTX wrote:Don't forget traveling,.......
- Jim

Open carry while traveling was laegal prior to HB1815?

Photoman · Post by **Photoman** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:09 pm

I'm with the original person that posted....Texas gun laws make my head hurt!

Sure would be nice to simplify things...

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:51 pm

seamusTX wrote:
Seburiel wrote:Well, alrighty then, now I go to look up what constitutes travelling :-)
Nobody knows. It's a conundrum, a riddle wrapped in an enigima, etc.

In other words, it's not a reliable justification for carrying. It might work. It might not.

- Jim

Texas Penal Code 46.15

(i) For purposes of Subsection (b)(3), a person is presumed
to be traveling if the person is:
(1) in a private motor vehicle;
(2) not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other
than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance
regulating traffic;
(3) not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a
firearm;
(4) not a member of a criminal street gang, as defined
by Section 71.01; and
(5) not carrying a handgun in plain view.

Seburiel · Post by **Seburiel** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:54 pm

thanks, TXI - that's some good info.

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:17 pm

BadCo45ACP wrote:
seamusTX wrote:Don't forget traveling,.......
- Jim
Open carry while traveling was laegal prior to HB1815?

As I said in my "back to basics" reply to westernamerican, carrying a handgun in Texas is illegal per PC 46.02. There are exceptions, where that law doesn't apply. One of them is traveling, and it doesn't matter if the handgun is open or concealed.

Another exception is if the person holds a CHL, and is carrying a concealed handgun.

Among the various exceptions to PC 46.02, the only time that open/concealed is mentioned, is in the exception for CHLs who are carrying concealed, or security guards who are carrying openly. A CHL who meets another exception (traveling, on property they own or control, sporting activity) doesn't even have to stay concealed.

Think about it: if a CHL could not avail himself of the other exceptions, it would be illegal for anyone holding a CHL to have an unconcealed handgun on the range, or in his own house.

It is, however, recommended to stay concealed while traveling unless you wish to discuss the finer points of the law while wearing chrome-plated bracelets. You'd win in the end, but you'd probably suffer some inconvenience in the meantime.

Kevin

Seburiel · Post by **Seburiel** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:21 pm

[quote="KBCraig] A CHL who meets another exception (traveling, on property they own or control, sporting activity) doesn't even have to stay concealed.
Kevin[/quote]

not to be a parrot, but TXInvestigator wrote:

Texas Penal Code 46.15

(i) For purposes of Subsection (b)(3), a person is presumed
to be traveling if the person is:
(1) in a private motor vehicle;
(2) not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other
than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance
regulating traffic;
(3) not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a
firearm;
(4) not a member of a criminal street gang, as defined
by Section 71.01; and
(5) not carrying a handgun in plain view.

srothstein · Post by **srothstein** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:07 am

Seburiel,

One of the problems with that change to the law that you highlighted is that it is not a definition of traveling. It is a presumption of one case that meets the definition. In other words, if youa re walking across the state following the old Highway 90 from Houston to San Antonio, camping along the way, you could still argue that you were traveling under the statute. It is just not the one case that is presumed to be traveling.

For the definition of traveling, you need to read case law. There have been a few cases on it with a large variety of definitions of what was or was not traveling. In what is considered the final case on this, the Court of Criminal Appeals asked the legislature to please define traveling but said that until they did, it is a fact for the jury to decide. That was almost 100 years ago. Since then, traveling is whatever your trial jury says it is in your case. If you get twelve basketball refs on the jury, moving both feet might be traveling. If you get twelve travel agents, anything that does not involved a booked trip might not be.

The good news for most of us is that this section changes again on Sep. 1. The presumption goes away and traveling goes back to whatever a jury says, with no presumption. Carrying in a car is specifically legal under those circumstances and becomes an element of the offense to prove otherwise for the police.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:38 am

srothstein wrote:Since then, traveling is whatever your trial jury says it is in your case. If you get twelve basketball refs on the jury, moving both feet might be traveling.

Kevin and Steve answered the questions that were posed to me above. The bottom line is that there are occasions when it is legal to carry a handgun openly in public, but it's better to be discreet.

- Jim

dpatterson · Post by **dpatterson** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:37 pm

And to throw another one in there.... Its not always legal to open carry when hunting.

Ex: Only conceal carry is allowed by a CHL holder during Bow Hunting Only season.

DP

chewy555 · Post by **chewy555** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:06 am

txinvestigator wrote:

Â§ 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits
an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on
or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.

Â§ 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

(3) is traveling;

Would this mean that I could keep my ASP in my car? I know that I can have it if I am working as a security officer, but would it let me keep it in there all the time? Thanks for any info.

longtooth · Post by **longtooth** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:21 am

Your Texas Concealed HANDGUN Liscense does not allow you to carry anything under it authority except a handgun.
I believe an ASP would be considered an illegal club if you carried it.
I also would think there might be some issues w/ it in your vehicle.
One of our LEOs will be in shortly I am sure.

chewy555 · Post by **chewy555** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:24 am

Sorry LT, I should have been more clear. I ment while traveling can I have the ASP in the vehicle.