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flintknapper wrote:Eventually...she got better as her nervousness subsided. If I had judged her based on the first time I saw her shoot, I would have done her a dis-service.

I don't think so. She was willing to take advice and learn. That is what the original example was not willing to do. I don't have nearly as much of a problem with someone being ignorant or untrained or similar. What I have much more of a problem with is someone being unwilling to correct it.

The PD in my town go shooting as a group from time to time. A few months ago me and my 13 yr old were out shooting my 1911 A1 .45 and he had a few officers hanging over his shoulder. They were suprised that a 13yr old could put up a 5 inch group at 10m with a .45.
Just to give you the visual my son is a 82 pound skinny kid.

I just sat down and watched, my son and the officers shoot togeather for about a half hour. One officer even let him fire his service weapon.

My son was so exicited and full of himself, He is already planning military service and after that he wants to go into law enforcment.

I digress, all the officers in my town seem to have a good grasp on weapon handleing.

At the range I shoot at, if I'm covered by anyones muzzle, cop or not, I report them to the RO immediately and they are asked to leave.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:FWIW, I taught a NRA Basic Pistol course to a group of LE Explorer Scouts a couple of years ago. I was assisted by the troop leader (a member of the local PD) and one of his friends - a federal air marshall.

During live fire training I noticed that the cop was a pretty good shot, but the air marshall guy was completely lights out. One of the best shooters I have ever seen. And he made it look easy.

Just curious, was he shooting an FN Five.seveN? That is the FAM standard issue weapon. Those are pretty awesome pistolas in themselves!

Keith B wrote: Just curious, was he shooting an FN Five.seveN? That is the FAM standard issue weapon. Those are pretty awesome pistolas in themselves!

Last time I checked...No agency was currently issuing the Five-Seven. The two FAMs I know don't carry the Five-Seven and never have. As a matter of fact, I know one of them would quit his job if asked to carry that gun because it's rather fragile. The last time I talked with either guy, they were carrying Sig 229's in .357Sig and using Speer Gold Dot ammunition.

casingpoint wrote:A timely response on this subject in the Houston Chronicle today:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5213704.html

Forget being a cop, how does that guy manage to function as an adult?

Keith B wrote: Just curious, was he shooting an FN Five.seveN? That is the FAM standard issue weapon. Those are pretty awesome pistolas in themselves!

Edit / correction: He had SIG in 357 SIG.

flintknapper, I would certainly pay more taxes if it meant my local LEOs would recieve additional training. I pay a ton of taxes alrighty why not a few more bucks in the kitty pot. Heck, it's my life they are protecting and I wouldn't want them to "hit" someone other than the BG if my life was in their hands or hit me for that matter. You mentioned training every LEO to swat standards, well, if it meant saving a life it would be worth the extra taxes....for me anyway. Folks, again, I'm not advacating that LEOs be bullseye shooters, but simply more educated on weapon useage and safety. Case in point. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5213704.html This was the main reason I pursued my CHL. And yes, I do train twice a week with my wife and kids(9, 7yrs old). They are taking it like duck to water. Thanks for all of the input. I know the job of a LEO is stressful and dangerous, but so is my job and I'm expected to know every aspect and practice it too. Thanks again.

I find that when I try to show people (cop or otherwise) how to do things when they have not asked for my assistance they usually get defensive, especially depending on how I approach them.

While at the range if I see a safety violation I tell the staff.

LEO's are required to qualify yearly with duty ammo. Many departments don't supply time, ammo or a place for officers to practice. MOST cops are not "gun people". It is, to them, another tool of the job.

txinvestigator wrote:I find that when I try to show people (cop or otherwise) how to do things when they have not asked for my assistance they usually get defensive, especially depending on how I approach them. While at the range if I see a safety violation I tell the staff.

LEO's are required to qualify yearly with duty ammo. Many departments don't supply time, ammo or a place for officers to practice. MOST cops are not "gun people". It is, to them, another tool of the job.

A good point.

flintknapper wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:I find that when I try to show people (cop or otherwise) how to do things when they have not asked for my assistance they usually get defensive, especially depending on how I approach them. While at the range if I see a safety violation I tell the staff.

LEO's are required to qualify yearly with duty ammo. Many departments don't supply time, ammo or a place for officers to practice. MOST cops are not "gun people". It is, to them, another tool of the job.

A good point.

That is true, but the boyfriend did ask. The female LEO got very defensive since she had been through the academy and all and her BF was all of a sudden out shooting her after working with him for about 5 minutes. I never approached her since she was obviously way above anyone there. She was obviously an "expert" in firearms.....NOT! Muzzling someone especially me is something I take very serious. It can lead to an AD on my part in their direction very quickly. How would a LEO respond if I was to muzzle him or her out on the street on accident? Just a thought.

jazr45acp wrote:

flintknapper wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:I find that when I try to show people (cop or otherwise) how to do things when they have not asked for my assistance they usually get defensive, especially depending on how I approach them. While at the range if I see a safety violation I tell the staff.

LEO's are required to qualify yearly with duty ammo. Many departments don't supply time, ammo or a place for officers to practice. MOST cops are not "gun people". It is, to them, another tool of the job.

A good point.

That is true, but the boyfriend did ask. The female LEO got very defensive since she had been through the academy and all and her BF was all of a sudden out shooting her after working with him for about 5 minutes. I never approached her since she was obviously way above anyone there. She was obviously an "expert" in firearms.....NOT! Muzzling someone especially me is something I take very serious. It can lead to an AD on my part in their direction very quickly. How would a LEO respond if I was to muzzle him or her out on the street on accident? Just a thought.

Not to nitpick, but your first post did not indicate that he asked. It appears as though you just offered your advice. Still, I see no reason for such anger over the issue. And we don't know all the sides to this story, either.

jazr45acp wrote: Muzzling someone especially me is something I take very serious. It can lead to an AD on my part in their direction very quickly.

Whoooooaaahh!!!!

Liberty wrote:

jazr45acp wrote: Muzzling someone especially me is something I take very serious. It can lead to an AD on my part in their direction very quickly.

Whoooooaaahh!!!!

Whoooooaaahh!!!! is right!

I've got the solution!

jazr45acp wrote:I would certainly pay more taxes if it meant my local LEOs would recieve additional training.

You do that and we'll see if the local LEOs will pass the hat around for your non-violent dispute resolution refresher course.

I mean no disrespect to any LEO. I know your jobs are very stressful. I have some very good friends who are LEO here in town and a brother-in-law who is a Fed. agent. The stories they share with me about real life encounters they deal with very single day are out of this world. It takes a special type of person, with the correct attitude, disposition, intellegance and so on to be an effective LEO. However, as I stated in my original post, it was the handling of a loaded weapon not the group size that caught my attention. My range closes at 6pm sharp, so the ROs are gone soon after that. It's up to us members of the range to "police" one another. Again, if you muzzle anyone especially me you're going to get a serious talk from me or other members bar none! However, the female LEO wouldn't have anything to do with it. She had the attitude of "talk to the hand, cuz the ears aren't listening." The group size, stance, trigger control had nothing to do with it. For all I knew, they were new comers to the sport of shooting. It wasn't until after I spoke with them that I found out the female was a LEO. I wasn't very good when I first started, but I listened to other's input which has led to my developement in the sport. Nonetheless, safety is king at a gun range or when handling a weapon whether it is loaded or not. Remember, first rule of gun safety is All guns are LOADED. Thanks for all of the input you guys have gratiously given. I hope I have not disrespected any LEO here or abroad. That was not my intention at all. Hope you folks have a great work day.