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Stupid wrote:All nice and dandy. The problem is that nobody is required to show proof of citizenship, which means any illegal can walk in and claim to be a citizen.

This would the loophole I would like to close.

There'd still be a call to NICS, unless the illegal alien shows a fake CHL and fools the dealer.

Stupid wrote:All nice and dandy. The problem is that nobody is required to show proof of citizenship, which means any illegal can walk in and claim to be a citizen.

This would the loophole I would like to close.

Why should citizenship be required?

The right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental human right. It is not a Constitutional "right" like voting. The Constitution is neither the source, nor the authority for RKBA.

Calling NICS would yield nothing because illegals have no record there. So, NICS would come back fine.

Fosforos wrote: There'd still be a call to NICS, unless the illegal alien shows a fake CHL and fools the dealer.

The constitution is only for Americans. Please don't argue with me on this point. In reality, only American receives the proper constitutional rights, mostly. I truly wish American could extend this courtesy to people around the world, but that's not the reality, so let's not even go there.

Back to my point. Since we have the law that differentiate citizen and non-citizen, why not put in a check to verify the citizenship properly?

KBCraig wrote: Why should citizenship be required?

The right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental human right. It is not a Constitutional "right" like voting. The Constitution is neither the source, nor the authority for RKBA.

Stupid wrote:The constitution is only for Americans. Please don't argue with me on this point. In reality, only American receives the proper constitutional rights, mostly. I truly wish American could extend this courtesy to people around the world, but that's not the reality, so let's not even go there.

Back to my point. Since we have the law that differentiate citizen and non-citizen, why not put in a check to verify the citizenship properly?

KBCraig wrote: Why should citizenship be required?

The right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental human right. It is not a Constitutional "right" like voting. The Constitution is neither the source, nor the authority for RKBA.

How do you propose they do that? Use the fraud-wrought system of Social Security Numbers? National ID Card? Bring a Birth Certificate or other proof of Citizenship every time you purchase a gun? In addition, you're going to need absolutely every citizen in your database, so that we know which ones are pre-approved to purchase a gun by the Federal Government. Rather than a list of people not allowed to purchase a firearm, we'd have to maintain a list of absolutely every single U.S. citizen - all in the NICS database. That list would have to constantly be updated to add newborns and remove the deceased. And you'd still have to figure out a way for everyone to easily prove their identities and citizenship status in a uniform manner.

Perhaps we should simply implant microchips into people so they can be easily identified and verified.

Stupid wrote:The constitution is only for Americans. Please don't argue with me on this point.

Really, so a British person here accused of a crime does not get a speedy trial, right to counsel, etc?

txinvestigator wrote:

Stupid wrote:The constitution is only for Americans. Please don't argue with me on this point.

Really, so a British person here accused of a crime does not get a speedy trial, right to counsel, etc?

+1
And I guess it's okay for everyone who offers a Mexican or Canadian driver's license during a traffic stop, to be forced to submit to a warrantless search. No pesky 4th Amendment to worry about! Or to force them at gunpoint to profess (fill in the blank) as the One True Religion, since the 1st Amendment doesn't cover them. Shoot, force them to confess to crimes, since the 5th doesn't apply either!

Stupid (I really hate that word, but it's the name you chose for yourself), the Constitution is limited to America, but not to Americans. The Bill of Rights restricts the government from doing certain things. It does not limit the restriction to American citizens.

I can't even imagine why would want to deny any law abiding resident the right to arm themselves. One thing I've personally noticed visitors get a true enlightenment of what American freedom is all about, when they actually get take a gun go to a range and make holes in paper. So many of them have never even held a gun or even seen one except when attached to a soldier or LEO. It was one thing to hear us brag about our freedoms, its another thing when they get to sample and experience them.

Constitution, citizenship, RKBA, etc.....aside.

When the Father-in-Law gets back to Texas, make sure he gets whatever gun(s) he wants.

It drives the "Anti's" crazy.

I said no argument. you should do your own research on this very subject.

Actually.... the answer is "hmm... not really."

txinvestigator wrote:

Stupid wrote:The constitution is only for Americans. Please don't argue with me on this point.

Really, so a British person here accused of a crime does not get a speedy trial, right to counsel, etc?

my last answer to this subject as i have no interest discussing it.

You've already seen the example where citizens and aliens are treated differently in purchasing firearms - in fact, non green card holders must hold hunting license prior to buy any firearm.

Do your own research, please. The Constitution itself was not written to be not limited to American citizens, but the application of laws ARE.

KBCraig wrote: Stupid (I really hate that word, but it's the name you chose for yourself), the Constitution is limited to America, but not to Americans. The Bill of Rights restricts the government from doing certain things. It does not limit the restriction to American citizens.

Hunting license?????????????????

See http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/rules/2004-1.htm

THE GUN CONTROL ACT OF 1968, PUBLIC LAW 90-618


(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any
firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe
that such person -
(5) who, being an alien –

(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));



(y) Provisions relating to aliens admitted under nonimmigrant visas. -
(1) Definitions. - In this subsection -
(A) the term “alien� has the same meaning as in section 101(a)(3) of the
Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(3)); and
(B) the term “nonimmigrant visa� has the same meaning as in section
101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)).

(2) Exceptions. – Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is –

(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;

sailor2000 wrote:Hunting license?????????????????

See http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/rules/2004-1.htm

Stupid wrote:I said no argument. you should do your own research on this very subject.

Actually.... the answer is "hmm... not really."

txinvestigator wrote:

Stupid wrote:The constitution is only for Americans. Please don't argue with me on this point.

Really, so a British person here accused of a crime does not get a speedy trial, right to counsel, etc?

Don't post if you don't want to be corrected when making outlandishly incorrect statements.

And you are wrong. But since you can't argue your position let's just leave it at that.

Stupid wrote:my last answer to this subject as i have no interest discussing it.

You've already seen the example where citizens and aliens are treated differently in purchasing firearms - in fact, non green card holders must hold hunting license prior to buy any firearm.

Do your own research, please. The Constitution itself was not written to be not limited to American citizens, but the application of laws ARE.

NO, Texas criminal law applies to "a person".

If you meant to say that SOME persons have different requirements is SOME sections of law, then we are getting closer to agreeing.