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I believe the 'macho' factor is the reason why the military prefers to recruit 18yr olds, and not 54yr olds... young males have an inherent tendency to think of themselves as bulletproof, and with the social emasculation of males in society nowadays, I can see where getting one's CHL could enhance that 'machoness'.

Vic303 wrote:I believe the 'macho' factor is the reason why the military prefers to recruit 18yr olds, and not 54yr olds... young males have an inherent tendency to think of themselves as bulletproof, and with the social emasculation of males in society nowadays, I can see where getting one's CHL could enhance that 'machoness'.

Direct quote from the army recruiter to my dad at 18:
"Your vision is too poor to be an MP, but you'd make an excellent infantryman." Apparently the idea is that young men don't think twice about charging blind.

p.s. He opted for accounting instead.

I must agree that there is some macho or bravado in the equation to carry firearms among men. We are men and can not change the fact. There is a difference between us and women.

There is also a difference between young men and older men.

I am continually reminded about how much I have "mellowed" over the years by people who know me and work with me.

There are reasons for this as well. I am of the opinion that a large portion of society's ills are a direct result of the lack of mature male intervention in the control of younger males.

I copied this from somewhere and apologize for not knowing whom to credit for the wisdom.

Social Harmony:

I was reading an article the other day, in the local newspaper, about an elderly Korean gentleman who has moved into town and opened a martial arts studio. He chastened the reporter who had come to interview him not to suggest that the martial arts were 'all about fighting.' "No!" he said. "The purpose is social harmony."

That is exactly right. The secret of social harmony is simple: Old men must be dangerous.

Very nearly all the violence that plagues, rather than protects, society is the work of young males between the ages of fourteen and thirty. A substantial amount of the violence that protects rather than plagues society is performed by other members of the same group. The reasons for this predisposition are generally rooted in biology, which is to say that they are not going anywhere, in spite of the current fashion that suggests doping half the young with Ritalin.

The question is how to move these young men from the first group (violent and predatory) into the second (violent, but protective). This is to ask: what is the difference between a street gang and the Marine Corps, or a thug and a policeman? In every case, we see that the good youths are guided and disciplined by old men. This is half the answer to the problem.
But do we not try to discipline and guide the others? If we catch them at their menace, don't we put them into prisons or programs where they are monitored, disciplined, and exposed to "rehabilitation"? The rates of recidivism are such that we can't say that these programs are successful at all, unless the person being "rehabilitated" wants and chooses to be. And this is the other half of the answer: the discipline and guidance must be voluntarily accepted. The Marine enlists; the criminal must likewise choose to accept what is offered.

The Eastern martial arts provide an experience very much like that of Boot Camp. The Master, like the Drill Instructor, is a disciplined man of great personal prowess. He is an exemplar. He asks nothing of you he can't, or won't, do himself--and there are very many things he can and will do that are beyond you, though you have all the help of youth and strength. It is on this ground that acceptance of discipline is won. It is the ground of admiration, and what wins the admiration of these young men is martial prowess.

Everyone who was once a young man will understand what I mean. Who could look forward, at the age of sixteen or eighteen, to a life of obedience, dressed in suits or uniforms, sitting or standing behind a desk? How were you to respect or care about the laws, or the wishes, of men who had accepted such a life? The difficulty is compounded in poor communities, where the jobs undertaken are often menial. How can you respect your father if your father is a servant? Would you not be accepting a place twice as low as his? Would you not rather take up the sword, and cut yourself a new place? Meekness in the old men of the community unmakes the social order: it encourages rebellion from the young.

The traditional martial arts tend to teach young men to undertake flashy and impressive, but not terribly effective, fighting techniques. Only as you grow older do the masters of the art teach you the real secrets--the subtle, quick, physically simple ways in which the human body can be destroyed. In this way, the old retain their power over the young--although they lack the speed and strength, they have in discipline in training more than enough to maintain the order. Social harmony is maintained in the dojo: the young revere the old, and seek to emulate them. Your father may be a servant, but he is still a warrior--and a more dangerous one than you. The father, being past that age in which biology makes us vicious, guides the son or neighbor to protect society rather than to rend it. It is not particularly different in the military.

If we would have a stable society, we must have dangerous old men. This means that, if you are yourself on your way to becoming an old man, you have a duty to society to begin your preparations. The martial arts are not the only road--my own grandfather did it through a simple combination of physical strength, personal discipline, and an accustomed habit of going armed about his business. There was never a more impressive figure--or, at least, there was never a boy more impressed than was I.

The martial virtues are exactly the ones needed. By a happy coincidence, having a society whose members adhere to and encourage those virtues makes us freer as well--we need fewer police, fewer courts, fewer prisons, fewer laws, and fewer lawyers. This is what Aristotle meant when he said that the virtues of the man are reflected in the society. Politics and ethics are naturally joined.

It is up to us mature males to show the younger males the way. The best way is to lead by example and not to fear correcting what we see wrong. The best place to do this is at home, church, and work, and any other place we have influence.

We need the young macho males full of bravado and ready to learn. Who else is there to take our place?

Anygunanywhere

Well said & well quoted, Anygun! There is also the issue of boys being raised WITHOUT a father/fatherfigure. And the issue of many of us women allowing/propagating the social emasculation of our boys. All I can say is, NOT MY SON! I do my best to let him be a boy, too. My husband works hard so I can stay home with the monkeys, but I do wish there was more time for him to spend with our son, just doing 'guy things'. I do my best, to give him a boy-environment in a house full of girls, but despite my tom-boy mentality, even I have come to realize there IS a gender difference in our brains.

Being 25 myself I believe I understand where you’re coming from when you talk about macho'ism from the younger crowd. I personally never thought about getting my chl till this year. I did so because I moved to Houston, got married, and have a little girl on the way, and saw protection becoming a priority for my family.
Though I believe there was a little macho'ism after I got my plastic, the main thing I noticed personally was my heightened awareness of my surrounding once I started carrying protection. Not quite to the point of paranoid, but I would defiantly look over my shoulder more than I normally would.

Food for Thought: I don’t think I would worry about the young ones who are getting their CHLs, I would worry about the young ones that carry without their CHL . The ones with CHLs are doing what is right, and getting proper training. Many even follow up with advanced training.

anygunanywhere wrote:
I copied this from somewhere and apologize for not knowing whom to credit for the wisdom.

http://grimbeorn.blogspot.com/2004_06_0 ... 7558263312 June 2004

BigBlueDodge wrote:I will admit that I am very new to this CHL stuff. After many long years of inactivity, I finally decided to get my CHL. I've completed my coursework and am waiting on Austin to do their thing. Given the responsibility of holding a CHL, I've been fanatical about research and scouring the internet related to any/all matters of Texas CHL and I've discovered a disturbing trend. What I'm seeing is that the motivation for some getting a CHL is not primarily for protection. There is a certain amount of "macho'ness" that drives people to get their CHL. My first exposure to this was in my actual CHL class. The class was composed mainly of younger individuals (in their 20's). During introductions, the instructor asked everyone why they wanted a CHL, and the younger guys would say stuff like "becuase I just turned 21, or I just moved here and we weren't allowed to carry guns where I came from, etc". Few of them said they wanted their CHL for protection. Throughout the class I noticed that the younger guys questions were more centered around the equipment (which gun is the best, which ammo is the most destructive, what is the best brand of holster, where is best place to carry) and not so much around protection. During the breaks , they were proud of their handguns as they'd all group together and look at each others. The older folks questions were centered around the laws, and the responsibilities of owning a CHL. It was clear to me that a large portion of the young guys interest for getting their CHL was simply so they could carry their Desert Eagle or GLOCK on them. It was apparent that they got a kick out of the power of carrying a gun.

Well, that was my first experience to CHL, and I tried not to think much about it. Coming out of that class it was apparent to me that this is great responsibility of the CHL holder to become intimately aware of Texas CHL laws, so I read my "Texas Concealed Handgun Laws and Selected Statues" booklet two times, then set out on my quest of the internet to learn more. Even in forums like this I've read posts from people saying they carry two or three guns, with a couple of pocket knifes and one or two extra clips when they go out and I ask myself why? Our soldiers in Iraq don't carry that much stuff and they are in a war. What environment do we have in the US that could possible demand that much protection. From what I've read, a large majority of the reported CHL related disputes, the weapon is never fired, or only a couple of shots are fired. Given the high capacity magazines we have today, we can fit up to 14,15 shots in one magazine. I carry a 1911 that holds 7 shots, and I do not feel undergunned or feel a need to carry more than that. Again, my only explanation is that there is a power high that some get from carrying a gun, and the macho factor pops up. I find it rediculous now that people feel unsecure going to get mail from their mailbox now, where as 1 year ago they thought nothing of it. It's almost that owning a CHL make people more paranoid of their surroundings, even though their surroundings haven't changed. Magically, bad guys are now lurking everywhere.

I know that the majority of CHL owners are humble, law abiding citizens who get their CHL purely for personal protection only, but I have observed a disturbing number of individuals that appear to be getting a kick out of the power of carry a gun on them. It's almost like they are just waiting for a situation to occurr that they can use their firearm in, and this worries me. Because we all know that it only takes one or two incidents where a CHL holder screwed up to ruin it for the whole bunch.

At this point, no one will admit to themselves that they got their CHL because it made them feel powerful/macho to carry a gun. We are all convinced that we got it purely for personal protection. However, it doesn't take long to see the individuals who got it for power reasons, as their behaviors and actions will ultimately show.

I was 28 when I got my CHL (just over a year ago now). I had only owned a handgun for a few months, and only had owned rifles a couple of months longer than that. As evidenced in my early posts here on this forum, I was new to guns and other SD equipment, so I had a lot of questions and interests specifically in equipment, what it does, and effectiveness of particular calibers/guns/etc. I believe this is a natural thing to do with any kind of ownership. For example, someone who owns a new car tends to immediately research the vehicle, join car groups related to their vehicle, get into discussions online regarding the performance of this or that, options, add-ons, etc. It's a natural part of ownership.

As with anything else, younger people generally aren't as articulate in expressing their concerns and desires regarding carrying as those with more experience in life. Many haven't been faced with the realization of their own mortality and so "self-defense" isn't quite on the forefront of the reasoning as it is with those with more life experience. I do believe the reasoning is still there, but exists on a more primal level than conscious, so the expression of that desire is not clearly made.

As far as concern that someone is going to ruin it for the rest of us... This is a right we're talking about, not a privilege. In Texas, that right is limited and regulated, but is a right nonetheless - and is available to anyone who has not shown a history of irresponsibility or disregard for the law. I understand your concern, but if we cannot trust a law-abiding citizen to do the right thing, we make concealed carry a privilege, not a right.

From my personal experience, the realization of the social responsibility that comes with a CHL had a significant effect on my attitude and demeanor in everyday life. I was forced to reconsider the image that I convey to society in my actions. My demeanor while driving, interacting with others, and to people in general was all affected when I got my CHL. It is true that with great power comes great responsibility, and that point certainly made itself evident to me. I believe this applies to most people (especially younger folk), as I've seen numerous people on this forum express the same sentiments after getting their CHLs.

I understand your concerns, and they are certainly not completely unfounded. I am sure that there are some people who carry on a power trip (at least initially), but I believe life and social conventions have a way of changing that. People grow up, and responsibilities are realized. Someone who carries for that reason and makes it evident to others is going to be called out fairly quickly (socially or legally). Otherwise, a power trip that can't be expressed is going to lose its novelty quite quickly, and that person will either lose interest or come to a realization regarding the responsibility of carrying and come around to a proper understanding of what it means to carry.

In response to your other observations, it may appear that people become "afraid" of going anywhere because they believe that BG's are lurking around every corner, but I think the reality is that our eyes are more open to the harsh realities of human existence. No, there's not always someone hiding around every corner waiting to harm us, but there are people out there waiting to bad things to good people. We have no way of knowing where or when that is, so we prepare ourselves to be ready for that reality at all times. An outsider may see this as a constant paranoia keeping us on edge, and I've talked to many people that think that very thing. I know from personal experience that there are people out there waiting to harm, rape, and murder innocent people who are unaware and unprepared. I do my best to prepare for the possibility that someone may someday make me his target.

In my opinion, it is similar to defensive driving skills. If you've ever attended a defensive driving course, you were taught to keep your attention on the traffic, your vehicle, and what is going on around you. You are taught to anticipate hazards and avoid them before it becomes a critical issue, and to prepare yourself to evade a problem if it presents itself. You are also taught to act responsibly as a driver, to follow the law, and develop driving habits that minimize the risk of a collision and make the road a safer place to drive for everyone. Personal preparedness in self-defense falls along these same lines. We learn to be aware of our surroundings, anticipate hazards and have plans of action ready to respond to unexpected situations. I don't expect someone to try and rob or kill me while going about my daily activities, but I prepare myself for the possibility. To an outsider, this may look like a paranoia or sitting on edge waiting for trouble to come to me, but that's very far from the truth. I do my utmost to live in peace and avoid confrontation if at all possible.

As for your observations regarding equipment, whatever you are comfortable with is fine with me. I carry 2 handguns (a normal carry sidearm and a BUG), as well as extra magazines for each of them, a pocket knife, and a flashlight. I hope that I never have to use them at all, but I have learned in my life that things tend to go wrong at the worst possible time. While I don't expect my equipment to fail, I prepare myself for the possibility. With something so critical as a self-defense weapon, I believe it better to be prepared for a disaster that never happens than be unprepared for one that does unexpectedly. Machismo has nothing to do with what I carry. It is all about function and preparedness. As for the bulk, my primary carry gun (a Hi-Power) makes up most of that, with its extra mags on the opposite side of my pants - this actually makes it easier to carry, as the extra mags balance out the weight of the gun. The BUG (a Ruger LCP) and its extra mag are so small and light that I don't even notice them. Soldiers in Iraq certainly carry around much more weight than I do.

Also, welcome to the forum and to CHL. I look forward to future discussions. There's a lot of great folks on here, and you certainly can learn a lot from this group.

So, I turned 21 3 months ago and have a CHL, carry a Glock 19 with two spare mags, because I need to feel "macho?"

Please don't lump all young men into one group. Some are more mature than others.

BigBlueDodge wrote:I will admit that I am very new to this CHL stuff. After many long years of inactivity, I finally decided to get my CHL. I've completed my coursework and am waiting on Austin to do their thing. Given the responsibility of holding a CHL, I've been fanatical about research and scouring the internet related to any/all matters of Texas CHL and I've discovered a disturbing trend. What I'm seeing is that the motivation for some getting a CHL is not primarily for protection. There is a certain amount of "macho'ness" that drives people to get their CHL. My first exposure to this was in my actual CHL class. The class was composed mainly of younger individuals (in their 20's). During introductions, the instructor asked everyone why they wanted a CHL, and the younger guys would say stuff like "becuase I just turned 21, or I just moved here and we weren't allowed to carry guns where I came from, etc". Few of them said they wanted their CHL for protection. Throughout the class I noticed that the younger guys questions were more centered around the equipment (which gun is the best, which ammo is the most destructive, what is the best brand of holster, where is best place to carry) and not so much around protection. During the breaks , they were proud of their handguns as they'd all group together and look at each others. The older folks questions were centered around the laws, and the responsibilities of owning a CHL. It was clear to me that a large portion of the young guys interest for getting their CHL was simply so they could carry their Desert Eagle or GLOCK on them. It was apparent that they got a kick out of the power of carrying a gun.

Well, that was my first experience to CHL, and I tried not to think much about it. Coming out of that class it was apparent to me that this is great responsibility of the CHL holder to become intimately aware of Texas CHL laws, so I read my "Texas Concealed Handgun Laws and Selected Statues" booklet two times, then set out on my quest of the internet to learn more. Even in forums like this I've read posts from people saying they carry two or three guns, with a couple of pocket knifes and one or two extra clips when they go out and I ask myself why? Our soldiers in Iraq don't carry that much stuff and they are in a war. What environment do we have in the US that could possible demand that much protection. From what I've read, a large majority of the reported CHL related disputes, the weapon is never fired, or only a couple of shots are fired. Given the high capacity magazines we have today, we can fit up to 14,15 shots in one magazine. I carry a 1911 that holds 7 shots, and I do not feel undergunned or feel a need to carry more than that. Again, my only explanation is that there is a power high that some get from carrying a gun, and the macho factor pops up. I find it rediculous now that people feel unsecure going to get mail from their mailbox now, where as 1 year ago they thought nothing of it. It's almost that owning a CHL make people more paranoid of their surroundings, even though their surroundings haven't changed. Magically, bad guys are now lurking everywhere.

I know that the majority of CHL owners are humble, law abiding citizens who get their CHL purely for personal protection only, but I have observed a disturbing number of individuals that appear to be getting a kick out of the power of carry a gun on them. It's almost like they are just waiting for a situation to occurr that they can use their firearm in, and this worries me. Because we all know that it only takes one or two incidents where a CHL holder screwed up to ruin it for the whole bunch.

At this point, no one will admit to themselves that they got their CHL because it made them feel powerful/macho to carry a gun. We are all convinced that we got it purely for personal protection. However, it doesn't take long to see the individuals who got it for power reasons, as their behaviors and actions will ultimately show.

I think you mean LEO not CHL.

BambooShoots wrote:So, I turned 21 3 months ago and have a CHL, carry a Glock 19 with two spare mags, because I need to feel "macho?"

Please don't lump all young men into one group. Some are more mature than others.

I don't think that was anyone's intention and if any post I made infers that in any way I apologize as it was not my intention. Sometimes the occaisional "everyone", "always", or "never" makes it into a conversation. Generalities are not good as a rule.

There are many fine young men with CHLs packing every day without machismo.

Anygunanywhere

Highly agree. One of those YOUNG men is my son.

if you are yourself on your way to becoming an old man, you have a duty to society to begin your preparations

At 58, I have been pondering what to do next. Now it is all so clear. Thanks, Grasshopper.

GA Heath,

To answer your questions, he wasn’t just "near the mailbox.� After interrupting a series of dope deals on my property fronting a public road, I came under the scrutiny of certain individuals. This particular person was obviously scoping my place. Imagine his surprise when he entered the narrow viewing vector up my driveway to see the target pointing a gun at him from thirty feet away. The fact he had no license plate on the vehicle further confirmed my suspicions as he passed by. At the slightest hint of a gun....well, it is not necessary to go into all that macho conjecture here. When they found out I got game ahead of theirs, they backed off. Ain’t heard from them in a while. But they're still around, probably trashing somebody else's back forty.

I often rack a slide just to see the rounds fly and confirm everything is in working order.

Often I can dial 911 from a distance and let sheriffs deputies make the introductions. This I much prefer to confrontations. Deputies have a lot more experience in projecting their macho and are almost always right no matter what they do to punks.

Rex B wrote:But I don't think those with the 'macho' attitude are affecting us so far. The statistics don't reflect anything. My gut feeling is most of them settle down a bit after they start carrying routinely and have time for the responsibility to sink in a bit.

Totally 100%

Imagine his surprise when he entered the narrow viewing vector up my driveway to see the target pointing a gun at him from thirty feet away.

In most states that will get you a brandishing charge at the very least,pointing a gun at somebody that has not threatened you in any way and is legally on the roadway,all it would take is them calling the cops to report you had pointed a gun at them and you would be facing charges