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Embalmo wrote:I would probably be more annoyed by it if I were still subject to it, but I, like most of us her, don't have to worry about it anymore.

Yep, my feelings are similar. It used to really tick me off, because I would always get a delay and that costs gas money when you're at a store 50 miles away and have to come back tomorrow to collect what you've already paid for. But now I have my CHL, it's just a minute or so filling out a form.

That said, I still have this nagging feeling that I ought to be more angry about it, on general principle.

I have no problem with the NICS background check. Before I got my CHL, the longest wait for NICS was 5 minutes.

Is it an infringement on your rights? You betcha
But compared to the current infringements on our rights (Patriot Act, Warrant less Wire Taps, IRS, ect) its not as much of a "Big Deal" also it helps settle down the antis to know that "Criminals" and "Crazys" cant LEGALLY buy a gun. Does that mean they cant get one a number of different ways? No. If you want a gun you will find one, be it gun shows, the "Black market", stealing, borrowing, making on ect.

NCIS works so well as proven by the fact that we have so little crime involving guns. Criminals do not get their guns by buying them from stores. They get them off the street.

After Virginia Tech I saw reporting about the shooter and that he had mental problems but still was able to buy guns. Well, he could have more easily bought his guns off the street for cheaper even if the NCIS had declined his purchase.

They say NCIS stops straw purchases but it doesn’t. It only gives law enforcement a paper trail to go thru AFTER crimes have been committed so they can arrest the seller but not necessarily the violent criminals.

Lock up the violent criminals that exists today and most gun related crime will end. Sure, “crimes of passion” will still occur but they did long before black powder was shooting rockets into the air over China. We cannot regulate ourselves into a secure society. We can only make sure the punishment meets the crime to discourage all criminals.

It is a free country and people can shop were ever they want. Their criminal status is what keeps them from BUYING a firearm but not from visiting or shopping for them. In theory there is NOTHING you can do unless the gov't makes felons wear a scarlet letter that identifies them when they walk in the door.

Guys,

Of course I could be wrong, I haven't bothered to look up numbers on straw sales, etc, but empirically it seems that NICS has at least caused the criminals to shop at different stores than me; and I like that. I've always assumed that without NICS I would be waiting at Academy behind a guy with a prison teardrop tattoo, because I've always guessed that the quality, selection, and prices would certainly draw them out if they didn't have to deal with NICS. Once again, I'll admit it, I'm a snob.

Embalmo

It's already been pointed out, but bears repeating: criminals don't buy guns from retail outlets. They buy them on the street, or they steal them. NICS isn't going to stop that.

KC5AV wrote:It's already been pointed out, but bears repeating: criminals don't buy guns from retail outlets. They buy them on the street, or they steal them. NICS isn't going to stop that.

But that raises the question, "Why don't they (criminals) buy from retail outlets?" I've never bought a gun off the street, but I'm assuming it is analogous to illegal drug purchases; low quality, super expensive, and potentially dangerous, so why wouldn't they buy new, clean, inexpensive guns from Academy if they could buy them "over the counter"?

Don't get me wrong-I understand that gun control puts more guns in criminal's hands; just look at Chicago, or London. And I guess there's no point in further debate without some quantifiable numbers about whether they (criminals) would start showing up at Academy. It just seems that doing away with NICS could have a way of ruining it for all of us, and Academy might decide that handguns sales are just not worth it like Wal-Mart did years ago.

Embalmo

Embalmo wrote:

KC5AV wrote:It's already been pointed out, but bears repeating: criminals don't buy guns from retail outlets. They buy them on the street, or they steal them. NICS isn't going to stop that.

But that raises the question, "Why don't they (criminals) buy from retail outlets?" I've never bought a gun off the street, but I'm assuming it is analogous to illegal drug purchases; low quality, super expensive, and potentially dangerous, so why wouldn't they buy new, clean, inexpensive guns from Academy if they could buy them "over the counter"?

Don't get me wrong-I understand that gun control puts more guns in criminal's hands; just look at Chicago, or London. And I guess there's no point in further debate without some quantifiable numbers about whether they (criminals) would start showing up at Academy. It just seems that doing away with NICS could have a way of ruining it for all of us, and Academy might decide that handguns sales are just not worth it like Wal-Mart did years ago.

Embalmo

One would hope that even an Academy sales clerk wouldn't need a NICS check to tell him that it's not a good idea to sell a gun to a shambling wreck, covered in prison tats and with a 50/50 mix of cocaine and PCP encrusted around his nostrils and a half empty bottle of malt liquor in his pocket...

Embalmo wrote:

KC5AV wrote:It's already been pointed out, but bears repeating: criminals don't buy guns from retail outlets. They buy them on the street, or they steal them. NICS isn't going to stop that.

But that raises the question, "Why don't they (criminals) buy from retail outlets?" I've never bought a gun off the street, but I'm assuming it is analogous to illegal drug purchases; low quality, super expensive, and potentially dangerous, so why wouldn't they buy new, clean, inexpensive guns from Academy if they could buy them "over the counter"?

Don't get me wrong-I understand that gun control puts more guns in criminal's hands; just look at Chicago, or London. And I guess there's no point in further debate without some quantifiable numbers about whether they (criminals) would start showing up at Academy. It just seems that doing away with NICS could have a way of ruining it for all of us, and Academy might decide that handguns sales are just not worth it like Wal-Mart did years ago.

Embalmo

I dont think gun control puts guns in criminals hands, I just makes them feel more secure that the rest of the Populace is unarmed.
You know not to break into someones house in Texas if they are home, because they WILL shoot you.
I forget where I saw this and if anyone knows where this is, but they (maybe the NRA?) did a study that showed break ins in places with High Gun Laws were more likely to happen wit the owner home, than in places with loose gun laws and the owner home.

Also before NICS where did Criminals buy guns? I assume they went to retail stores or mail order , I could be wrong. But Lee Harvey Oswald bought his rifle with a fake ID and a Coupon from the American Rifleman (!)

As for using the papers to track down Straw Purchasers, good that's how police work is done.

"One would hope that even an Academy sales clerk wouldn't need a NICS check to tell him that it's not a good idea to sell a gun to a shambling wreck, covered in prison tats and with a 50/50 mix of cocaine and PCP encrusted around his nostrils and a half empty bottle of malt liquor in his pocket..."
As long as they pass the background check, right?

marksiwel wrote:

Embalmo wrote:

KC5AV wrote:It's already been pointed out, but bears repeating: criminals don't buy guns from retail outlets. They buy them on the street, or they steal them. NICS isn't going to stop that.

But that raises the question, "Why don't they (criminals) buy from retail outlets?" I've never bought a gun off the street, but I'm assuming it is analogous to illegal drug purchases; low quality, super expensive, and potentially dangerous, so why wouldn't they buy new, clean, inexpensive guns from Academy if they could buy them "over the counter"?

Don't get me wrong-I understand that gun control puts more guns in criminal's hands; just look at Chicago, or London. And I guess there's no point in further debate without some quantifiable numbers about whether they (criminals) would start showing up at Academy. It just seems that doing away with NICS could have a way of ruining it for all of us, and Academy might decide that handguns sales are just not worth it like Wal-Mart did years ago.

Embalmo

"One would hope that even an Academy sales clerk wouldn't need a NICS check to tell him that it's not a good idea to sell a gun to a shambling wreck, covered in prison tats and with a 50/50 mix of cocaine and PCP encrusted around his nostrils and a half empty bottle of malt liquor in his pocket..."
As long as they pass the background check, right?

Not necessarily. I worked at Wal-Mart several years ago (in the sporting goods department, so I actually sold a few guns), and we were told that we were under no obligation to sell a gun to anyone, even if something "just didn't feel right" about the purchaser.

KC5AV wrote: Not necessarily. I worked at Wal-Mart several years ago (in the sporting goods department, so I actually sold a few guns), and we were told that we were under no obligation to sell a gun to anyone, even if something "just didn't feel right" about the purchaser.

Thats the way it should be, to a point.

marksiwel wrote:My only problem with it is,
*Drum roll*

That they hold onto the forms too long and they should be destroyed after a year.

Nothing about NICS is retained. You're speaking of the 4473 "yellow form", which was required long before NICS.

chabouk wrote:

marksiwel wrote:My only problem with it is,
*Drum roll*

That they hold onto the forms too long and they should be destroyed after a year.

Nothing about NICS is retained. You're speaking of the 4473 "yellow form", which was required long before NICS.

You are correct, that is my mistake.

Son, I am dissapoint. So many people arguing for less gun rights because freedom is inconvenient.