TexasCHLforum.com

seamusTX wrote:MSAs lag actual population trends and are somewhat political. The Chicago MSA currently includes Joliet, which is 50 miles away.

I grew up in Chicago, and there is no way Joliet is "in" or "around" Chicago. Joliet, while not a bad town overall, is where Chicago sends its undesirables. It's like saying that Huntsville is "in" or "around" Houston. - Jim

Isn't that the home of Elwood and Jake "Joliet", the Blues Brothers?

seamusTX wrote:This is simple math. One in 55 is about the statewide average.

The Houston metropolitan area is the fourth largest in the U.S. and largest in Texas. It is largely conservative and affluent. Of course there are going to be more people with CHLs in the Houston area than anywhere else.

The part that is a bit of a challenge is that Houston and its suburbs are distributed across Harris, Fort Bend, Liberty, Montgomery, and (ahem) Galveston counties, so no one can point to a single city or county as a focus.

League City in Galveston County had the highest per-capita number of CHLs a few years ago for exactly the demographic reasons that I cited above.

- Jim

You reckon "perceived need" of a CCW in these communities comes into play or do the citizens do the CHL thing because they "can"?

WildBill wrote:Isn't that the home of Elwood and Jake "Joliet", the Blues Brothers?

Other than being completely fictional, I suppose. The Belushis were born in Chicago and would have known "Joliet" as a synonym for tough times.

Joliet is the site of the major maximum-security state prison in northern Illinois.

Oldgringo wrote:You reckon "perceived need" of a CCW in these communities comes into play or do the citizens do the CHL thing because they "can"?

Absolutely because they can and want to. That's the only reason an adult does anything.

Some people may get a CHL because of something that happened to them or someone they know, or in the neighborhood. Those are the ones that don't carry, because the shock factor wore off by the time they got the plastic.

My friend Liberty articulated it well: he carries because the fact that he can [annoys] some people.

- Jim

I sure do believe I live in the most populated CHL zip code in the state. Both of my neighbors to the left and right of me have a CHL and I believe we all got it for the same reason. We look out for each other and the kids on the street. You could call us a street watch group. 77379 has had a lot of problems in the last 5 years. This used to be one of the best zip codes in North Houston. It was middle- upper middle class and after 05 a lot of the cities problems started pushing north. Basically a lot of houses foreclosed and many became rental houses. A lot of young people renting houses and selling drugs is the norm. It’s a little scary. I figure another 3 years and I will move farther north. The Woodlands better look out. They got another 10 years of low crime and then it will start to change there also.

CC Italian wrote:I sure do believe I live in the most populated CHL zip code in the state. Both of my neighbors to the left and right of me have a CHL and I believe we all got it for the same reason. We look out for each other and the kids on the street. You could call us a street watch group. 77379 has had a lot of problems in the last 5 years. This used to be one of the best zip codes in North Houston. It was middle- upper middle class and after 05 a lot of the cities problems started pushing north. Basically a lot of houses foreclosed and many became rental houses. A lot of young people renting houses and selling drugs is the norm. It’s a little scary. I figure another 3 years and I will move farther north. The Woodlands better look out. They got another 10 years of low crime and then it will start to change there also.

Uh,..yeah. That is kinda' what I was talking about with the "perceived need" question.

seamusTX wrote:The overall cost of a CHL including the pistol itself, the course, the application fee, and a few boxes of ammo is at least $700. Then you get to the holster and belt. That is going to correlate with income.

- Jim

That fact has disturbed me for a long time. Many of the people who need a CHL most don't qualify for a poverty discount. I am glad we at least have some relief for them tied to income.

I have not always been the cigar-chomping fat cat that I am today, so I have some sympathy for people who can't find work or work for low pay.

OTOH, they seem to find the money for cigarettes, booze, lottery tickets, brand-name shoes, and cable TV. Anyone who wants something legal can get it legally. It's just a question of effort and priorities.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:I have not always been the cigar-chomping fat cat that I am today, so I have some sympathy for people who can't find work or work for low pay.

OTOH, they seem to find the money for cigarettes, booze, lottery tickets, brand-name shoes, and cable TV. Anyone who wants something legal can get it legally. It's just a question of effort and priorities.
- Jim

Jim. So many are into instant gratification and habits. They can't conceive of priorities and things that are worth saving for - like the whole protection / self defense package of gun, ammo, CHL etc. So they suffer at the hands of those who illegally use weapons to prey on them. Sad but too true.

While we're on the subject, poor people often cannot get bank accounts, so they carry every cent they own on their person. A while back, I saw a man who probably was a construction worker peel three Franklins off a roll that must have been thousands. They also own crummy cars that they don't insure for theft but also can't replace easily.

Poverty stinks.

- Jim

Illegals may have difficulty opening bank accounts but others should be able. I opened a "free checking" account with a $100 deposit within the past year.

seamusTX wrote:Some people may get a CHL because of something that happened to them or someone they know, or in the neighborhood. Those are the ones that don't carry, because the shock factor wore off by the time they got the plastic.

I don't have experience with a wide enough diversity of CHL holders who have told me their motivations, but that isn't the case with me. Some things happened over time, some bigger and some smaller, which leave me feeling vulnerable and unsafe. However, I haven't pursued a CHL because of safety concerns with my ability to shoot and handle a gun and keep it out of children's hands. I'm learning what I can do to minimize and eliminate those risks. I'm a slow and steady plodder, but by the time I get to the point of taking the class, I will feel comfortable with those risks and that they are smaller than the risks I'm addressing. I'm not learning because I can or to stick it to some man. I'm learning because some experiences brought the very real threat of bad guys with ill intent to my intention and I want to level the playing field, protect my children and myself, and make it to another day with my life, limbs, and honor intact.

seamusTX wrote:The overall cost of a CHL including the pistol itself, the course, the application fee, and a few boxes of ammo is at least $700. Then you get to the holster and belt. That is going to correlate with income.

- Jim

That seemed a little high for me as a minimum so my husband and I added it up. His numbers were:
$250 for a firearm like a KelTec P11 or, if they're really hard up, a HiPoint compact for $135
$70 low-income-family application fee or $140 if they don't qualify as low income
$65 course fee
$40 for 4 boxes of ammo (one of which is used for the course)

That means that obtaining a CHL for everyday carry is $310 to $495 minimum.

It's just not a cultural reference point for low income individuals to carry because of a long history of gun control laws specifically intended to control the "undesirables" such that the poor, predominantly minorities, have developed other ways of coping, none of which are as effective and that is by design. There need to be large scale education efforts to inform them of their rights and privileges and to get them accustomed to identifying as gun owners before that will change.

terryg wrote:

kahrfreak wrote:77511

That's Alvin!! Woot!!

.

Yeah, I dont get that....Alvin??? I have family who are cops here and I know it is bad but just driving around it doesnt seem bad at all.

Were I am at isn't even that bad it’s just that many people in the area came under shock when a lot of people went into foreclosure. Many houses were vacant for 2 years and they could not sell. So the banks started leasing houses in the 150-225K range. Now a lot of people are moving to The Woodlands or farther north and renting out their houses because they will get so little if they sell them. Its small things that add up like people who rent seem to take less care of their lawns and lots of young bachelors living together making a lot of noise late into the night with bass thumping rap music. People (usually young guys) driving 45-50mph down side streets were children are often running up and down the streets. I am always yelling at them to slow down. I have even told the local constables and it does seem that the sheriffs department is in the neighborhood more at night. All these little things add up to a less friendly environment then just a couple of years ago. There has not been a huge spike in violent crimes but I know for a fact car burglary and high school vandals are way up.

Hoi Polloi wrote:I haven't pursued a CHL because of safety concerns with my ability to shoot and handle a gun and keep it out of children's hands.

You presumably have knives, a stove, range, or oven, electrical appliances, a chain saw, legal drugs like aspirin, and poisons like bleach, insecticides, and fertilizer. You manage these things safely.

Your stumbling block seems to be what has been accurately labeled "totemization" of firearms, namely, the belief that firearms are uniquely threatening or deadly. They are, of course, threatening and deadly. They were designed for those purposes. However, they are no more threatening or deadly than many other things that we use with confidence every day.

seamusTX wrote:The overall cost of a CHL including the pistol itself, the course, the application fee, and a few boxes of ammo is at least $700. Then you get to the holster and belt. That is going to correlate with income.

That seemed a little high for me as a minimum so my husband and I added it up. His numbers were:
$250 for a firearm like a KelTec P11 or, if they're really hard up, a HiPoint compact for $135
$70 low-income-family application fee or $140 if they don't qualify as low income
$65 course fee
$40 for 4 boxes of ammo (one of which is used for the course)

That means that obtaining a CHL for everyday carry is $310 to $495 minimum.

OK, but it's not peanuts.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:

Hoi Polloi wrote:I haven't pursued a CHL because of safety concerns with my ability to shoot and handle a gun and keep it out of children's hands.

seamusTX wrote:The overall cost of a CHL including the pistol itself, the course, the application fee, and a few boxes of ammo is at least $700. Then you get to the holster and belt. That is going to correlate with income.

That seemed a little high for me as a minimum so my husband and I added it up. That means that obtaining a CHL for everyday carry is $310 to $495 minimum.

seamusTX wrote:Ok, but it's not peanuts. -Jim

For some people, this is a month's rent.