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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:39 am
by Popshot
Somone else's bad driving behaviors can anger or scare you. We've all been there.
CHL permits you to carry a concealed handgun for last resort self-defense. No longer can you use inciteful actions. From now on, use only clearly defensive postures. Dicipline, dicipline, dicipline.
Re: Scenario
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:16 pm
by txinvestigator
SW40VE wrote:
He then loudly said,"You couldn't have just let me in *******?". I responded with, "You didn't have a turn signal on and you just completely cut me off.
I think you already know that the finger was a bad idea. I have a temper (shocker I know
) and I also know that I control me. I NEVER give the finger.
And it seems that while we CHL holders worry about what kind of gun to carry, tactics, where we can and cannot carry, etc., we forget one very important part of the training; CONFLICT RESOLUTION.
A simple, 'hey man, I am sorry I was distracted and lost my cool with you, I should not have flipped you off", would have been a response of de-escalation.
If I had been in a situation that got to the point where the guy followed me into the store I would have been pepper spray ready also. You would not be legally justified unless and until he made an overt threatening act.
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:53 pm
by 40FIVER
We've all done stupid and unwise things. I appreciate your having the honesty to tell it like it happened. A lot of people would have left out the single digit wave part just to make themselves look better. Honesty is a big part of being qualified for the CHL. Now go in peace, grasshopper.
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:44 pm
by kw5kw
John wrote:OK... So the question is, will you do it again? Consider that he might have used his blinker, but it was out. Does everyone out there know how to tell if a turn signal is out? Probably not.
The turnsignal indicator lamp will not blink but remain a steady on!
John wrote: Have you ever clicked your turn signal only to have it click right back off because of the position of the steering wheel?
Yep... But I noticed it because it popped right back on my finger... I simply reactivated it
John wrote:As far as questions go, have you ever driven in Houston? Defensive driving dictates to expect people to turn in front of you without a blinker.
not true, there is always time for a turn signal... unless you're negligent, i.e.: cell phone or just plain in too big a hurry.
John wrote:Anyway, just busting your chops a little. No offense intended and I am glad the incident ended without escalating further. Your response was neutral enough not to escalate the incident with that person. A response that might de-escalate could be something like, "my apologies for doing that, but you might check your turn-signal, because it I did not see it on".
good advice
John wrote:My wife has a habit of wagging her index finger at people from the car. It irritates the heck out of me. I'm sure if something like this were to happen to her, she'd stop doing it.
mine is the on the horn, even when I'm drivin' she reaches over and lays on the horn. At time I want to just plain hide.
Russ
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:52 pm
by John
kw5kw wrote:
John wrote:As far as questions go, have you ever driven in Houston? Defensive driving dictates to expect people to turn in front of you without a blinker.
not true, there is always time for a turn signal... unless you're negligent, i.e.: cell phone or just plain in too big a hurry.
Russ
You may have misunderstood... I was saying that defensive driving dictates that you should expect the other driver not to use his blinker.
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:56 pm
by kw5kw
John wrote:kw5kw wrote:
John wrote:As far as questions go, have you ever driven in Houston? Defensive driving dictates to expect people to turn in front of you without a blinker.
not true, there is always time for a turn signal... unless you're negligent, i.e.: cell phone or just plain in too big a hurry.
Russ
You may have misunderstood... I was saying that defensive driving dictates that you should expect the other driver not to use his blinker.
sorry, I did misunderstand
Russ
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:34 pm
by John
kw5kw wrote:
sorry, I did misunderstand
Russ
From the abbreviations thread: IKYBYUWYTISBINSYRTWYHINWIM
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:33 pm
by MoJo
John wrote:kw5kw wrote:
sorry, I did misunderstand
Russ
From the abbreviations thread: IKYBYUWYTISBINSYRTWYHINWIM
Say what?
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:54 pm
by Venus Pax
I don't think any of us have to tell you that getting control of that finger is a top priority. Also remember that your son was in that car. He sees everything you do.
I'm glad you realized your mistake and worked at de-escalating the situation once you saw that it was moving in the wrong direction.
No, I don't think pepper spray would have been justified. He didn't appear to be threatening you. Had he begun making threats or advancing toward you, that would be a different story.
Next time, just apologize, even if it isn't your fault. Remember that an apology, even if the person is unworthy, is much cheaper than the lawyer you will pay to get your out of a situation. That gun and pepper spray are there for when the apology and the de-escalation tactics don't work.
As CHLers, we have an added responsibility to be the most glowing of citizens. Our ability to retain and gain our rights are tied directly to our behavior and ability to control ourselves in difficult situations.
Also, thank you for accepting everyone's rebuke. It will make you a better man in the end. We need more people like you.
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:11 pm
by TxFire
kw5kw wrote:John wrote:OK... So the question is, will you do it again? Consider that he might have used his blinker, but it was out. Does everyone out there know how to tell if a turn signal is out? Probably not.
The turnsignal indicator lamp will not blink but remain a steady on!
John wrote:
Actually that is dependent on the car. Both my Fords will function with a lamp out. Some cars will blink at a faster rate, some will remain steady on, and some will function normal. It is dependent on the type of flasher module.
Back to the topic now. Very good postings. I have a bit of a temper on the road, but do not use the single digit like I would when younger. Too many crazies out there. Glad all went well in the end. Lesson learned and thanks for posting it.
CONTROL
Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:23 am
by shootthesheet
We can't let ourselves get mad to the point we would antagonize someone. It doesn't matter that he was wrong. It doesn't matter that he followed you into the store. Avoid confrontation to the point the other guy picks up a weapon. Then your justified to self-defense. Just keep telling him/her to stop and leave you alone. It is okay for us to look like we are weak because we have the advantage and don't need false pride to bolster our position. I allow the knowledge of my own abilities along with the weapon I carry to remind me that I have that advantage. And if you are ever forced to get into a confrontation. The other guy underestimating your ability is a major advantage. That is true for fist fights and gun fights. If the nuts thinks they win because they yelled at you then you avoided confrontation and your job is done. It is hard when you think you are right to let things go. But, that is what we must do for our own good.
Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:42 am
by KinnyLee
jbirds1210 wrote:Sticks and stones can break your bones.....
I think a shot of pepper spray in that situation would have likely ended with you in jail. I am glad you had it....and glad you had a way out of a situation that you escalated
I think it is a great scenario.....thanks for sharing it with us.
I am not calling the kettle black......I have done the same thing in the past and try very hard to keep my middle finger even with the rest of them. I am not writing this in anything but a humble way because I have had the same problems in the past.
Gotta love Texas and the lack of respect for human life that many have on our roads...unlike many places, if you tell someone they are number 1, they will follow you home!
Jason
Hmmmmm. Sounded like Wednesday afternoon except I was the one who cut in and I did use my signal.
The guy did threaten to kick my rear though.
Thanks for sharing your scenario. I've since got some Fox Lab OC spray on order.
Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:57 am
by kw5kw
TxFire wrote:kw5kw wrote:John wrote:OK... So the question is, will you do it again? Consider that he might have used his blinker, but it was out. Does everyone out there know how to tell if a turn signal is out? Probably not.
The turnsignal indicator lamp will not blink but remain a steady on!
John wrote:
Actually that is dependent on the car. Both my Fords will function with a lamp out. Some cars will blink at a faster rate, some will remain steady on, and some will function normal. It is dependent on the type of flasher module.
Having spent 30 years in Ford parts and servicethis means you have a bad ground...
Back to the topic now. Very good postings. I have a bit of a temper on the road, but do not use the single digit like I would when younger. Too many crazies out there. Glad all went well in the end. Lesson learned and thanks for posting it.
Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:11 pm
by Paladin
Thanks for the story SW40VE! Appreciate your candor.
Your story is a reminder to all of us of the challeges we face on regular basis of dealing with difficult people and situations while avoiding conflict.
Re: Scenario
Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:34 pm
by Odin
SW40VE wrote:
Now I know I aggrevated the situation with the finger and the waving, but the mere fact of him following me into a store for a confrontation, would I have been justified in giving him a shot of pepper spray then calling the cops?
I don't think so, unless he did something that you interpreted as an immediate threat such as lunge at you or make a movement that indicated an attack was imminent.
§ 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE.
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force.
(b) The use of force against another is not justified:
(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;
) and I also know that I control me. I NEVER give the finger.