An argument against open carry?

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jbirds1210
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Post by jbirds1210 »

flintknapper wrote: The same suicidal person might throw himself in front of my car, but I still would like to be able to drive.

You make an excellent point. I guess I just try to wrap my mind around the idea of open carry from time to time and play the "what if" game when I see something relevant in the news.


My first response to open carry is that I do not like the idea, BUT I really dislike someone telling me I can't! I am going to carry openly in New Mexico in December to see how it feels around people that are used to it.

I guess there really is no way to safeguard against an idiot. Take care and thanks to everyone for the feedback.
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phddan
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Post by phddan »

I can pretty much guaranty that if all the naysayers had to work outside for a couple of days in 100+ degree heat, they would change their tune quicker than a rattle snake bites.

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Post by kw5kw »

Mithras61 wrote:
My point is that people intent on "suicide by others" will always have a multitude of ways to accomplish it ranging from what the doofus in your news article did to playing in traffic on the freeway (hey, it happens!).

If I wanted to commit suicide, all I would have to do is to park my car on a train track and wait, yet we don't outlaw train crossings.

If I wanted to commit suicide, all I would have to do is to drink a container of rat poison, yet we don't outlaw rat poison--controll it to a degree but not outlawed. Why? 'Cause we still have them critters, and we need to get rid of them.

If I wanted to commit suicide, all I would have to do is point a gun--a fake gun--at anyone, and sure enough someone would shoot me, a bartender, a concerned citizen, a CHL holder (who falls into both of the previous categories) or a LEO of some sort.

People will do what they want to do, that's the Free Will that was given to us by the LORD above, yet, those of us who have choosen to follow His good example will have more concern for their life and well being.
Mithras61 wrote: I would be unlikely to open carry if the law was passed to allow it, but would still like to see it passed. I object to being told that I can't carry openly for the same reasons I object to being told to wear a seatbelt in a car or a helmet on a motorcycle. I wear a seatbelt/helmet anyway. It makes sense to do so. I don't like laws designed to protect the stupid or lazy from themselves that are imposed on the public in general.
Just showing a weapon on your belt does not install any more fear than seeing that 30.06 in the rear window of a rancher's pickup to an average person. I see a weapon on the hip of a LEO and I respect that person. I see a weapon on the hip of my daughter while on the ranch, I know that she's concerned for her safety (there the pistol is loaded with snake shot). She's not out to do harm to anyone.

I doubt that I would ever carry open for any great lenght of time like a LEO, but I would like to fill up my car at the Racetrack or the QT without having to put on a jacket when it's >95 outside--which in itself screams "GUN"!

That 511 vest screams "GUN" also except while you're at the lake.

Guess, the only thing for me to do is to go back to a small .32 but I hate the .32 for the rimlock characteristic of the cartridge, maybe a .380 but they are just a 9mm short (I'd rather have the long).

Russ
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stevie_d_64
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Post by stevie_d_64 »

The whole premise to this "senario", to me personally is a nightmare situation that I hope no one I know ever has to deal with...

The fact that it doesn't matter if the person who is being "challenged" by another, just because they see a "gun", is a Law Enforcement Officer or not...

My primary concern (if it were me) is not to think about the reason "why" a person would be doing something like this to me...

Other things kick into the thought and reaction process...

The whole "suicide by cop" thing just blows me away to think that there are some people on the fringe of sanity, that think this is a viable option to justify doing harm to others hoping that someone else can put you out of your misery...Its absurd, and becoming more mainstream within the world's "pop-culture" idiocy...
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kw5kw
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Post by kw5kw »

stevie_d_64 wrote:...The whole "suicide by cop" thing just blows me away to think that there are some people on the fringe of sanity, that think this is a viable option to justify doing harm to others hoping that someone else can put you out of your misery...Its absurd, and becoming more mainstream within the world's "pop-culture" idiocy...
These people haven't got enough (fill in the blank) to carry their decison through on their own. They don't even know if they will do this until the very end when they do point the weapon. It might be a 'spur of the moment' type of thing also. Unless they aren't killed, we don't/won't know.

If these people really wanted to do this (suicide), in the first place, then they'd put a real gun up to their head and pull the trigger (It's kinda hard to kill one's self with a BB gun--but I guess it could be done), but---but maybe thier insurance won't cover suicide, therefore they take the inititive to try and continute to 'provide' for their families by having someone else do their 'dirty work.'

In the dark of night, and with the toy guns looking so, so much like their real cousins, who is to know if their gun is a real or a 'knock-off' duplicate? Do we give them the luxury of the first shot so that we can find out if their gun is real or 'memorex'?

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stevie_d_64
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Post by stevie_d_64 »

kw5kw wrote:
stevie_d_64 wrote:...The whole "suicide by cop" thing just blows me away to think that there are some people on the fringe of sanity, that think this is a viable option to justify doing harm to others hoping that someone else can put you out of your misery...Its absurd, and becoming more mainstream within the world's "pop-culture" idiocy...
These people haven't got enough (fill in the blank) to carry their decison through on their own. They don't even know if they will do this until the very end when they do point the weapon. It might be a 'spur of the moment' type of thing also. Unless they aren't killed, we don't/won't know.

If these people really wanted to do this (suicide), in the first place, then they'd put a real gun up to their head and pull the trigger (It's kinda hard to kill one's self with a BB gun--but I guess it could be done), but---but maybe thier insurance won't cover suicide, therefore they take the inititive to try and continute to 'provide' for their families by having someone else do their 'dirty work.'

In the dark of night, and with the toy guns looking so, so much like their real cousins, who is to know if their gun is a real or a 'knock-off' duplicate? Do we give them the luxury of the first shot so that we can find out if their gun is real or 'memorex'?

Russ
Thats the nightmare portion that really defines "you" more than anything...

I wouldn't even want to counsel a possible solution to that, because its something a person who take their personal safety and security seriously (which we all do) to the grave...

I'm sorry, I know I toat a bull line from time to time, but that just me...I try to keep as upbeat about stuff as much as I can...

This issue crosses over a lot of peoples lives, and its not one limited to whether you carry a firearm for lawful defensive purposes, or not...

And what stinks is that the bubble around you that you think you have control over gets a little smaller everyday...And its not anyones fault, thats just the sign of the times...

But I believe it gets better in some cases as well...We learn not to get ourselves into situations where that bubble gets busted...

We be purty smart folks here...
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
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KBCraig
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Post by KBCraig »

Working in prison, I've seen lots of suicide attempts, and dealt with lots of people who are suicidal but don't act on it.

I've thought about the suicide-by-cop scenario, and I decided that someone who tries that, wants their death to be someone else's fault. It's the final link in their chain of "victimhood", where everything that went wrong in their life is someone else's fault.

Most suicidal people don't think that way. Most of them consider everything that's wrong with the world to be their fault. But for those few who consider everything wrong with them to be the world's fault, suicide-by-cop would seem like confirmation.

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OTHER STATES

Post by shootthesheet »

I would think people from states where open carry has been legal could answer that. If that situation happens or not it is not people or LEOs open carrying that are to blame. It is the depression or drugs or whatever the cause. It is not our responsibility to restrict ourselves or avoid our rights because of what could happen. It would be tragic but, we shouldn't be punished because of what others do.

By framing your question as a possible rejection of open carry. I can only take that you think it may be reason enough not to open carry.(?) I don't. I think we should have the option and use good judgment and not get into a situation where we could harm or be harmed because of it. If it works in other states it will work in Texas.

Good question and something to consider. And, welcome to TCHLF.
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