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Evan Marshall, author of the Stopping Power series of books, retired Detroit PD sergeant, trainer, and survivor of more shootouts than he will admit to, says muzzle flash is a range issue you will not notice it in a gunfight. The BG probably won't notice his muzzle flash for the same reason, you both are preoccupied with surviving.

Winchester, Federal, and Speer all load standard pressure 230 gr defense ammo with flash suppressed powder I would buy the Law Enforcement 50 round boxes if you can find them. Your per round cost will be less and the LE ammo is definitely flash suppressed.

eta: Little known fact, when John M. Browning developed the 1911 pistol it was developed around a 200 grain round nose cartridge. The Army insisted on the 230 grain load.

markthenewf wrote:So the question still stands: what are the best 230gr rounds that are low flash? Like I originally said, the hornady CD rounds are great, but only come in 180-somethings. I want to use the original 230gr NON +P. This is what the 45ACP was designed around and what I want to use.

As others have mentioned, Federal uses low-flash powders, and I've had good luck in terms of accuracy with Federal HST 230 Grain JHP: http://www.federalpremium.com/products/ ... px?id=1015. 890 fps and 410 ft lb.

-2" at 50 yards.
-6.9" at 75 yards.
-15" at 100 yards.

The HST design holds together very well when penetrating glass and steel, and yet still expands reliably in tissue, and it has been favorably reviewed by more than one law enforcement agency.

MoJo wrote:eta: Little known fact, when John M. Browning developed the 1911 pistol it was developed around a 200 grain round nose cartridge. The Army insisted on the 230 grain load.

I had heard that before. I wonder how much the 230 grain requirement had to do with army familiarity with the .45 long colt cartridge, and its nominal 250 grain bullet.

[sidebar]
Under the "little known facts" heading, I just now looked at the Wikipedia page for .45 LC, and learned that, despite quickly replacing the .44-40 in popularity as a handgun cartridge when it was released, it never had a rifle chambered in it until almost 100 years later. I had just naturally assumed that when the .45 LC cartridge was developed, lever rifles were also developed to take advantage of it, but that was not the case as it turns out, until Winchester, Marlin, and others started making them a century later. There are two reasons claimed for that, the second one being the more likely. Some people say that the smaller rim of the .45 LC made extraction/ejection more difficult in a long gun, but that would seem to me to be a relatively easy engineering challenge to overcome at the time, particularly since it has already been overcome 100 years later. The more likely reason is that Colt refused to license the cartridge to other gun manufacturers, and so no rifle manufacturers were able to develop and sell a rifle in .45 LC until the original patents expired.
[/sidebar]

The Annoyed Man wrote:

markthenewf wrote:So the question still stands: what are the best 230gr rounds that are low flash? Like I originally said, the hornady CD rounds are great, but only come in 180-somethings. I want to use the original 230gr NON +P. This is what the 45ACP was designed around and what I want to use.

As others have mentioned, Federal uses low-flash powders, and I've had good luck in terms of accuracy with Federal HST 230 Grain JHP: http://www.federalpremium.com/products/ ... px?id=1015. 890 fps and 410 ft lb.

-2" at 50 yards.
-6.9" at 75 yards.
-15" at 100 yards.

The HST design holds together very well when penetrating glass and steel, and yet still expands reliably in tissue, and it has been favorably reviewed by more than one law enforcement agency.

And the HST has some pretty impressive terminal ballistics.
http://youtu.be/iWW2Y-IZpyE
Grrr, can't figure out how to embed video.

Jumping Frog wrote:

markthenewf wrote:So the question still stands: what are the best 230gr rounds that are low flash? Like I originally said, the hornady CD rounds are great, but only come in 180-somethings. I want to use the original 230gr NON +P. This is what the 45ACP was designed around and what I want to use.

You have already had two people respond regarding the Winchester Ranger T-series

Yeah, and exactly where do you get them? Do I really need to also say that the ammo is to be available?

markthenewf wrote:

Jumping Frog wrote:

markthenewf wrote:So the question still stands: what are the best 230gr rounds that are low flash? Like I originally said, the hornady CD rounds are great, but only come in 180-somethings. I want to use the original 230gr NON +P. This is what the 45ACP was designed around and what I want to use.

You have already had two people respond regarding the Winchester Ranger T-series

Yeah, and exactly where do you get them? Do I really need to also say that the ammo is to be available?

You've also had 2 people affirm Federal HST.......and unlike the Ranger, it is generally available.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

markthenewf wrote:

Jumping Frog wrote:

markthenewf wrote:So the question still stands: what are the best 230gr rounds that are low flash? Like I originally said, the hornady CD rounds are great, but only come in 180-somethings. I want to use the original 230gr NON +P. This is what the 45ACP was designed around and what I want to use.

You have already had two people respond regarding the Winchester Ranger T-series

Yeah, and exactly where do you get them? Do I really need to also say that the ammo is to be available?

You've also had 2 people affirm Federal HST.......and unlike the Ranger, it is generally available.

I don't ever recall seeing them, only hydrashocks. Aren't HST basically hydrashocks? If so, then they do have a pretty good flash as I shot some HS in low light as well.

<EDIT> I stand corrected. I think I'll get a few boxes of the HST rounds. I guess I'll have to wait until late in the year before I can do a test of them in low light, though.

markthenewf wrote:

Jumping Frog wrote:

markthenewf wrote:So the question still stands: what are the best 230gr rounds that are low flash? Like I originally said, the hornady CD rounds are great, but only come in 180-somethings. I want to use the original 230gr NON +P. This is what the 45ACP was designed around and what I want to use.

You have already had two people respond regarding the Winchester Ranger T-series

Yeah, and exactly where do you get them? Do I really need to also say that the ammo is to be available?

Three words - Ammunition To Go

MoJo wrote:

markthenewf wrote:

Jumping Frog wrote:

markthenewf wrote:So the question still stands: what are the best 230gr rounds that are low flash? Like I originally said, the hornady CD rounds are great, but only come in 180-somethings. I want to use the original 230gr NON +P. This is what the 45ACP was designed around and what I want to use.

You have already had two people respond regarding the Winchester Ranger T-series

Yeah, and exactly where do you get them? Do I really need to also say that the ammo is to be available?

Three words - Ammunition To Go

Nope, nadda, ziltch. I check places like ATG, Natchez, Midway, Brownells, PSA, and SGAmmo all the time and I've never seen an Ranger-T in 45ACP or at least available. I see it in 40 from time to time, though. You can find the douches selling it on gunbroker for stupid prices, but that is not an option I will consider (and I hope none of you do either).

markthenewf wrote:

MoJo wrote:

markthenewf wrote:

Jumping Frog wrote:

markthenewf wrote:So the question still stands: what are the best 230gr rounds that are low flash? Like I originally said, the hornady CD rounds are great, but only come in 180-somethings. I want to use the original 230gr NON +P. This is what the 45ACP was designed around and what I want to use.

You have already had two people respond regarding the Winchester Ranger T-series

Yeah, and exactly where do you get them? Do I really need to also say that the ammo is to be available?

Three words - Ammunition To Go

Nope, nadda, ziltch. I check places like ATG, Natchez, Midway, Brownells, PSA, and SGAmmo all the time and I've never seen an Ranger-T in 45ACP or at least available. I see it in 40 from time to time, though. You can find the douches selling it on gunbroker for stupid prices, but that is not an option I will consider (and I hope none of you do either).

I have both Ranger T and Federal HST and both quantities came from Ammunitiontogo.

Yeah, the HST seems to be available but the Ranger-T is kinda like hens teeth. No matter. I'll give the HST a go. I think I even saw them at a store locally at one point.

I'd still like to figure out some way of actually measuring the flash. Maybe I tape a grid to the 'booth' side and get someone to record a vid from the side while I shoot. If I'm lucky, I'll be able to grab a frame like the one below and be able to quantify the actual amount of flash.



That's a Ruger LCR357 with Buffalo Bore 158gr slugs in the daylight. Wahoo.

WRT the Ranger T, I've read a few reports about them not expanding consistently. Here is a recent thread:
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=452359