Open Carry in Church

[jmra]

Very interesting situation. I can honestly say I would consider such a person an immediate threat and would draw down on the person. I didnt even consider the possibility that such a person is simply OCing. Not to hijack, but holding a person at gun point in a situation like this, at church, is that legal? Should the person simply be told to leave? How is this different than WalMart?

I think my response would depend in part on how they were carrying. If they have their weapon on a sling across their back I would be less likely to draw. Weapon in front at low ready would dictate something else.

Again I am just trying to understand the lawfulness of this scenario and to help our staff and safety team be prepared.

If it is slung over the shoulder I would greet the individual and engage in conversation until one of our uniformed officers arrived to escort the individual off the property.
If the rifle was carried in a combat ready position I would draw immediately keeping my handgun at my side out of sight of the individual. I (or another greeter) would then inquire about his intentions. Any response less than hands off the rifle would put my sites on COM. I would gladly deal with the consequences later, but I have full confidence that the aftermath focus would be so centered on the OCer that I would be considered little less than a bystander.

[Cedar Park Dad]

I have a lot of CHL church members. It may be legal, but if someone walked in with an AR 15 he would not be greeted well or welcome. I would escort him out and call the police.

I light of the number of church shootings we've had, if somone walks in carrying an AR15 there will be panic. At our church he would not be breathing.
Now if he comes in with it slung, there will still be panic. If its a stranger they would definitely be escorted off the property with police coming.

[mojo84]

I took the question as meaning carrying a long gun, not wearing it. If he/she was wearing one on a sling, I would approach the person to help them understand they are welcome but there long gun isn't while having my weapon ready to draw. There would be others there within seconds to help encourage them to leave with the gun.

If carrying it, my original comment would apply. It is innapropriate based on societal norms to carry a long gun in a church now days and would be responded to accordingly. If you want to make a comparison, rather than using Walmart or Home Depot, how about comparing it to what would happen if someone walked into a synagogue or mosque?

[mamabearCali]

We can argue whether OC statements need to be made. That's fine. Church is not the time or place to do so

[RogueUSMC]

It would all depend...lol.

The act of simply entering with the long gun is not wrong in and of itself. His demeanor would be the telling factor to my response. If he didn't appear to be up to no good, I would make contact with him just like retail employees are encouraged to do with customers as they walk in the door (good customer service is the greatest factor in reducing shrink so to speak.) Offer to let him secure said rifle someplace like the pastor or the administrator's office and see how he responds and go from there. If he chooses to keep it with him, show him a seat by the wall and ask him to lean it against the wall and leave it alone (unless need arises.) I would then choose a seat nearby where I could watch him.

I am of the belief that, differentiating between one type of firearm that, with application of the hand activates a mechanism which causes a pin to strike a primer, causing powder to ignite, generating pressure, pushing a projectile along a bore to expel said projectile from the bore on a path to an intended target from another type of firearm that, with application of the hand activates a mechanism which causes a pin to strike a primer, causing powder to ignite, generating pressure, pushing a projectile along a bore to expel said projectile from the bore on a path to an intended target is catering to the prejudices of folks who don't like either one.

The other important reason is that it is the house of the Lord and all should be welcome. This goes back to the whole 'demeanor' thing...if there is no evidence of malicious intent, assume that there isn't. 'Trust but verify' I think is the term.

If, at some point he shows aggressive movements, drop him like a bad habit.

[anygunanywhere]

It would all depend...lol.

The act of simply entering with the long gun is not wrong in and of itself. His demeanor would be the telling factor to my response. If he didn't appear to be up to no good, I would make contact with him just like retail employees are encouraged to do with customers as they walk in the door (good customer service is the greatest factor in reducing shrink so to speak.) Offer to let him secure said rifle someplace like the pastor or the administrator's office and see how he responds and go from there. If he chooses to keep it with him, show him a seat by the wall and ask him to lean it against the wall and leave it alone (unless need arises.) I would then choose a seat nearby where I could watch him.

I am of the belief that, differentiating between one type of firearm that, with application of the hand activates a mechanism which causes a pin to strike a primer, causing powder to ignite, generating pressure, pushing a projectile along a bore to expel said projectile from the bore on a path to an intended target from another type of firearm that, with application of the hand activates a mechanism which causes a pin to strike a primer, causing powder to ignite, generating pressure, pushing a projectile along a bore to expel said projectile from the bore on a path to an intended target is catering to the prejudices of folks who don't like either one.

The other important reason is that it is the house of the Lord and all should be welcome. This goes back to the whole 'demeanor' thing...if there is no evidence of malicious intent, assume that there isn't. 'Trust but verify' I think is the term.

If, at some point he shows aggressive movements, drop him like a bad habit.

If a person enters a church with an OC long gun they are not there in humility to worship. They are there to draw attention to themselves. I see no reason to cater to their selfish behavior. They should be removed. Those there to worship do not need the distraction.

[RogueUSMC]

It would all depend...lol.

The act of simply entering with the long gun is not wrong in and of itself. His demeanor would be the telling factor to my response. If he didn't appear to be up to no good, I would make contact with him just like retail employees are encouraged to do with customers as they walk in the door (good customer service is the greatest factor in reducing shrink so to speak.) Offer to let him secure said rifle someplace like the pastor or the administrator's office and see how he responds and go from there. If he chooses to keep it with him, show him a seat by the wall and ask him to lean it against the wall and leave it alone (unless need arises.) I would then choose a seat nearby where I could watch him.

I am of the belief that, differentiating between one type of firearm that, with application of the hand activates a mechanism which causes a pin to strike a primer, causing powder to ignite, generating pressure, pushing a projectile along a bore to expel said projectile from the bore on a path to an intended target from another type of firearm that, with application of the hand activates a mechanism which causes a pin to strike a primer, causing powder to ignite, generating pressure, pushing a projectile along a bore to expel said projectile from the bore on a path to an intended target is catering to the prejudices of folks who don't like either one.

The other important reason is that it is the house of the Lord and all should be welcome. This goes back to the whole 'demeanor' thing...if there is no evidence of malicious intent, assume that there isn't. 'Trust but verify' I think is the term.

If, at some point he shows aggressive movements, drop him like a bad habit.

If a person enters a church with an OC long gun they are not there in humility to worship. They are there to draw attention to themselves. I see no reason to cater to their selfish behavior. They should be removed. Those there to worship do not need the distraction.

More often than not, you would probably be right...

But there can always be exceptions. Let's say the guy is travelling through on a bike and has nowhere to secure it on the bike? Granted, it would probably be cased but...

The intent is what is the issue. The tool is irrelevant.

Right or wrong is not relative, it is absolute. As TAM spoke earlier about the olden days, when they brought their long guns in and stacked them. Something that was not wrong then cannot be deemed wrong now. Either it was inherently wrong then but we laud them for it anyway, or it was not inherently wrong then, thus it is not now.

Now, would I do it? No. I couldn't give a flying flip about AR-15s...never really liked the platform, so I am not pitching a fit because I wanna go to church with mine. But by differentiating between types of firearms, we are trying to pacify the folks that don't like any of them...and being unsuccessful. We are dealing with folks that, when given and inch, they take a mile. Don't give them anything.

Demeanor is what would make me ask the guy to leave the Lord's house...trying to make a political statement in the Lord's house is counter-productive on most every side, really. If that is why he is there, he needs to be shown the door. If I ask someone to leave the Lord's house though, it has to be for a reason that I feel would be valid in the eyes of the Lord, not a personal prejudice.

[jmra]

It would all depend...lol.

The act of simply entering with the long gun is not wrong in and of itself. His demeanor would be the telling factor to my response. If he didn't appear to be up to no good, I would make contact with him just like retail employees are encouraged to do with customers as they walk in the door (good customer service is the greatest factor in reducing shrink so to speak.) Offer to let him secure said rifle someplace like the pastor or the administrator's office and see how he responds and go from there. If he chooses to keep it with him, show him a seat by the wall and ask him to lean it against the wall and leave it alone (unless need arises.) I would then choose a seat nearby where I could watch him.

I am of the belief that, differentiating between one type of firearm that, with application of the hand activates a mechanism which causes a pin to strike a primer, causing powder to ignite, generating pressure, pushing a projectile along a bore to expel said projectile from the bore on a path to an intended target from another type of firearm that, with application of the hand activates a mechanism which causes a pin to strike a primer, causing powder to ignite, generating pressure, pushing a projectile along a bore to expel said projectile from the bore on a path to an intended target is catering to the prejudices of folks who don't like either one.

The other important reason is that it is the house of the Lord and all should be welcome. This goes back to the whole 'demeanor' thing...if there is no evidence of malicious intent, assume that there isn't. 'Trust but verify' I think is the term.

If, at some point he shows aggressive movements, drop him like a bad habit.

If a person enters a church with an OC long gun they are not there in humility to worship. They are there to draw attention to themselves. I see no reason to cater to their selfish behavior. They should be removed. Those there to worship do not need the distraction.

More often than not, you would probably be right...

But there can always be exceptions. Let's say the guy is travelling through on a bike and has nowhere to secure it on the bike? Granted, it would probably be cased but...

The intent is what is the issue. The tool is irrelevant.

Right or wrong is not relative, it is absolute. As TAM spoke earlier about the olden days, when they brought their long guns in and stacked them. Something that was not wrong then cannot be deemed wrong now. Either it was inherently wrong then but we laud them for it anyway, or it was not inherently wrong then, thus it is not now.

Now, would I do it? No. I couldn't give a flying flip about AR-15s...never really liked the platform, so I am not pitching a fit because I wanna go to church with mine. But by differentiating between types of firearms, we are trying to pacify the folks that don't like any of them...and being unsuccessful. We are dealing with folks that, when given and inch, they take a mile. Don't give them anything.

Demeanor is what would make me ask the guy to leave the Lord's house...trying to make a political statement in the Lord's house is counter-productive on most every side, really. If that is why he is there, he needs to be shown the door. If I ask someone to leave the Lord's house though, it has to be for a reason that I feel would be valid in the eyes of the Lord, not a personal prejudice.

It's not against the law to wear a string bikini, but I believe everyone agrees that what may be appropriate attire on the beach is not appropriate in church. Just as I would not object to a young lady wearing the same string bikini under her church appropriate clothes (none of my business) nor would I object to someone with a CHL legally carrying a firearm under their church appropriate clothes (also none of my business).
The simple fact is this, legal or not OCing a rifle in a Church is extremely inappropriate. Of course as soon as the guy is asked to leave and doesn't, then he is no longer legally OCing a rifle. At this point all bets are off.