Scenario

[jbirds1210]

I've since got some Fox Lab OC spray on order.

GOOD! Many people do not feel that OC is a good alternative, but I bet 90% of the unbelievers have never had a snoot of it It WILL get your attention and the number of people that can tolerate it is very small.

I know that situation the other day rattled you....but he would have been visiting with two of us had he continued his threat
Jason

[GlockenHammer]

Now I know I aggrevated the situation with the finger and the waving, but the mere fact of him following me into a store for a confrontation, would I have been justified in giving him a shot of pepper spray then calling the cops?

I don't think so, unless he did something that you interpreted as an immediate threat such as lunge at you or make a movement that indicated an attack was imminent.


§ 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE.

(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force.
(b) The use of force against another is not justified:
(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;

Great post, Odin. I was waiting for someone to actually refer to the law in this thread.

Like most everyone else, I agree no force was yet indicated. You did well by having a non-lethal alternative and having it ready, but not in play. You're doing well to realize what you need to work on--none of us are perfect. You did well by getting your family out of the situation. You were lucky that this individual did not do his own escalation.

Thanks for sharing your experience--we all learn from each other.

[Boma]

I like to compare having a CHL to being an 18 wheeler driver. No matter how many people cut you off and get infront of you, you have to play it cool. You can never use the 18 wheeler to intimidate someone even though you have the power and they deserve it. You have to act like a total pansy.

Once things are out of control and there is a sudden accident where cars collide, you're in the big rig with protection. Same as having a gun, it comes in the last second only when you're about to get hurt or killed.

[Roger Howard]

Houston, which is the worst place I've driven in Texas.

The only reason that the finger does not get more of a reaction there is that you see it ten times an hour.

- Jim

You have never driven in Dallas have you? I fully agree on Chicago.

SW40VE
I deal with Idiot drivers on a minute by minute basis. You have to keep your cool. Him cutting you off was bad but your reaction increased the level of the situation. I'm glad he wasn't a gang banger carrying a gun with no reguard for life. Could have been very bad. Glad your going to work on that.

[seamusTX]

You have never driven in Dallas have you?

No. Never did anything but change planes there.

- Jim

[KinnyLee]

I've since got some Fox Lab OC spray on order.

GOOD! Many people do not feel that OC is a good alternative, but I bet 90% of the unbelievers have never had a snoot of it It WILL get your attention and the number of people that can tolerate it is very small.

I know that situation the other day rattled you....but he would have been visiting with two of us had he continued his threat
Jason

Thanks for having my back Sir! I was actually trying to avoid the confrontation and steered away from you guys because I really didn't want anyone else to get involved. Good thing that he finally gave up on me and went his marry way. I will take this as a lesson and be more careful from now on.

[cxm]

If you will take a look at the little white book you got when you took the CHL course, you will find that gestures such as the "finger" are illegal in Texas. Basically a misdemeanor.

Just not worth it in my view.

FWIW

Chuck

Yesterday, I took my wife and 6 year old son shopping to buy a halloween costume. Long story short, guy cuts me off on the highway, without a blinker. I gave him the one finger salute (which is an instinct reaction I am working on right now). We both were going to the same shopping center I suppose. He went left and I went right in the shopping center. I thought to myself, "good, he went away.". As we are walking into the local retailer, I see his vehicle driving slowly through the parking lot, as he is just staring me. I turned around and waved hi to him (just being who I am I guess).

He proceeds to park, get out of his car, and begin walking towards the store I am in. Gut feeling told me not to take my eyes off of him. He walked into the store, looked around for me.

My first thought was, "....there are ALOT of kids here. I can't let anything go down here, if the situation arises". I told my wife and son to go shop, and walked to a place where there were shopping carts between us. I had my right hand on my pepper spray which was in my pocket, because there was no way I was going to pull my gun with so many children around.

He then loudly said,"You couldn't have just let me in *******?". I responded with, "You didn't have a turn signal on and you just completely cut me off. I think you need to turn around and walk right back out of that door, now.". He just turned around and walked out. I still didn't take my eyes off of him. He proceeded to go to my vehicle and look at the license plate, then leave ( a scare tactic I assume?). I had my eyes on him until I could no longer see him. I was also very aware as we left the store, looking for his vehicle and he was nowhere to be found.

Now I know I aggrevated the situation with the finger and the waving, but the mere fact of him following me into a store for a confrontation, would I have been justified in giving him a shot of pepper spray then calling the cops? I am comforted by the fact that I was able to think through the situation and decide on which method of defense I would have used, though, since this was my first confrontation since getting my CHL. And yes, I had 17 rounds of 9mm corbon HP's on my right hip.

Your input is appreciated.

[Roger Howard]

You have never driven in Dallas have you?

No. Never did anything but change planes there.

- Jim

Just as bad if not worse in Dallas

[txinvestigator]

If you will take a look at the little white book you got when you took the CHL course, you will find that gestures such as the "finger" are illegal in Texas. Basically a misdemeanor.

Just not worth it in my view.

FWIW

Chuck

Actuallay it is not, in and of itself, illegal. You are referring to making an offensive gesture. There are several requirments to that; it must be in a public place and the gesture must tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.

In the situation depicted in this thread, both were present. however, it is not always the case.

[kw5kw]

You have never driven in Dallas have you?

No. Never did anything but change planes there.

- Jim

Ft. Worth is getting just as bad.
This morning for example:

I was headed east bound on I-20 in south Ft. Worth and this motorcycle enters the freeway from Hulen street.

(at this point in the highway you have 3 lanes of I-20 plus 2 full lanes that have just merged from Southwest Blvd. and TWO full entry lanes from Hulen and to exit to Trail Lake. Yep, that makes the freeway a full SEVEN lanes wide.)

Anyway, this motorcycle just enters the freeway and immediately accelerates across all seven lanes and is gone, with a car follwoing him. They start ziggin' in and out of traffic together.

People are always cutting two or three lanes to exit, all the while they're busy runnin' their mouth on their telephone.

Not to mention, you'd better wait for a full three seconds after you get a green light before you proceed because someone for sure is going to run that red light!

I'm really ready to move to a smaller town and leave the city to the city.

Russ

[seamusTX]

...you'd better wait for a full three seconds after you get a green light before you proceed because someone for sure is going to run that red light!

I'm really ready to move to a smaller town and leave the city to the city.

Don't move to Galveston (pop. 60,000), because I see that all the time, as in at least once a week. And I dont' drive much.

To be fair, many of the dangerous drivers here are disoriented visitors; but red is red everywhere.

- Jim

[stevie_d_64]

I am not justifying my actions, but this was no little old lady with a broken turn signal. This was a jerk driving like a maniac who caused me to slam on my brakes to keep him from hitting me.

Actually, I did grow up in Houston and live in San Antonio now. I think San Antonio is much worse considering the number of people on the road who don't even have a drivers license let alone US citizenship.

I chalk this up as a learning experience for sure, and my actions definitely would not be the same if this ever happens again. My biggest reason for the post was about him deliberately following me into the store and confronting me. I think that would be seen as an act of aggression IMHO.

I wouldn't call myself someone with a big ego.

I haven't scanned all of the responses so far in this one, but this post of yours stood out at this time...

I think you have learned your lesson...You are not 2, and I think if you are man enough to admit what you did (in reaction) was inappropriate, regardless of who or what started it...

Just slap yourself on the forehead and say I could have had a V-8...

To be honest, it took me some time as well to get over the whole "cut-me-off-so-I-give-them-the-finger" routine...

But imagine if in that instant, while giving the guy the finger, you lose control of your vehicle and crash and burn, killing yourself, and anyone in the vehicle with you...

Nobody's going to know why it "really" happened, if your last act of defiance is the cause of your demise...

The guy you flipped off will continue on with his/her life...

It was a hard life-lesson for me to learn, and its one we all have to suppress everyday in a society that for all intensive purposes not as sharp as we are...IMO...

I think we all do a pretty good job of "not" getting caught up in it...

Thats why I believe Texas has the best CCW law and training in the country...Of course it needs tweeking here and there, but I think we produce excellent results...

Now if I can just make it home today from work, without...