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Cedar Park Dad wrote:I'm not averse to that. More averse to the bids that are frankly insulting, cluttering up the sites...

That's why I never list an item as an auction. The last item I sold on ebay was a Burris AR-536 optic with a Burris AR-QD mount. I paid $399 for the scope (which was the going rate at the time), plus I paid $75 for the mount. I sold both the optic and mount together, very lightly used, for $350 on ebay......$125 less than I had in it. I'll never forget a guy who contacted me, offering to take "that pos" off my hands for $200 because "I can get the same thing over at Such-and-So Tactical for $225". I sent him a reply: "If you can get this combination of scope and mount brand new for $225, then you'd be crazy to buy it used from me for $350, let alone $200. If I were you, I'd head on over there before they change their minds. Hell, I'll buy another one from them and resell it here at my price of $350 and make a handy profit. Thanks for the tip."

I never heard back from him.

It is often true that sellers overvalue their stuff and charge too much for it.....I think in no small part because they have invested in procuring it in the first place, and that means something to them. But it is more often than not also true that buyers undervalue stuff and are cheapskates, and their offers are both insulting to the seller, and a waste of the seller's time. Insulting someone and wasting their time is nothing but pure rudeness. I have no time for rude people. And the really rude thing? That rude people think it is rude to be called out on their rudeness.

Personally, I won't bargain when buying UNLESS the seller invites me to make an offer. Either the price is fair, in which case I'll buy, or it is higher than it ought to be and I just move along. If it is priced WAY too low, I worry that there is either something wrong with it, or it is an off-brand knock-off and I avoid it. I don't mind paying a fair price, and I'm not trying to gyp anybody out of anything. But rude people are gypers, and I have no use for them.

What an item of property is worth is up to the owner , if I don't want to pay the price asked I simply tell them .......it sure is a nice one ! Then go about my business . It's not up to me to put a selling price on whats not mine .

And sometimes, it's just better to let the dude with the drilled and tapped Mosin-Nagant M44 with a cheap Tasco scope on top pretend it's a Soviet Sniper Rifle, smile, nod, and move along.

Unfortunately, I have seen stuff like this at the local gun shows. They never sell, but they sure get handed around a lot by 30-40 somethings who're pretending they were in Vietnam.

And yah, seen that too.

that's why I buy at the gun show. local places such as bass pro and some gun shops are consistently 100 dollars over average price.

I also don't buy 22lr above 7 cents a bullet. I don't have to have it that badly.

I got quite a laugh out of all the people who bought AR during the gun scare for double and triple the price. I waited about a year after the whole thing and bought what I wanted for under msrp.

chuck j wrote:What an item of property is worth is up to the owner , if I don't want to pay the price asked I simply tell them .......it sure is a nice one ! Then go about my business . It's not up to me to put a selling price on whats not mine .

That is exactly my standpoint. If I don't intend buying a gun listed I don't even ask or comment. If a price seems to high in my opinion I don't start to haggle. If there are details I want to know I simply send a PM and ask. But apparently there are some individuals trying to manipulate and argue because they do not or don't want to understand the concept of a free market.

bmwrdr wrote:

chuck j wrote:What an item of property is worth is up to the owner , if I don't want to pay the price asked I simply tell them .......it sure is a nice one ! Then go about my business . It's not up to me to put a selling price on whats not mine .

That is exactly my standpoint. If I don't intend buying a gun listed I don't even ask or comment. If a price seems to high in my opinion I don't start to haggle. If there are details I want to know I simply send a PM and ask. But apparently there are some individuals trying to manipulate and argue because they do not or don't want to understand the concept of a free market.

IMO, they do understand, but they think they are above the rules. And if they can get away with it, that re-enforces their belief.

Some folks believe the value of firearms increase the moment they walk out the door with it. Shoot a couple hundred rounds through it. Dont clean it. Leave it bouncing around in the back of a pickup or laying in the rain next to the pig pen and there it is, posted in all it's neglected, scratched up rusted glory, just a tad above retail.

I've seen initials carved in stocks with a pick axe on some pretty good model frearms. Barrels rusted almost through. Cracked stocks. Actions rusted solid. Pieces missing here and there.

Those older guns that have been taken care of fetch a preimium that is well worth paying. The banged up or well cared for "still in production" guns do not. Unless of course we have a school shooting or an election didnt go the right way. Hopefully the panic will subside more and we can return to sanity prices on guns & ammo for 3 or 4 months. That would be nice.

chuck j wrote:What an item of property is worth is up to the owner , if I don't want to pay the price asked I simply tell them .......it sure is a nice one ! Then go about my business . It's not up to me to put a selling price on whats not mine .

I'm trying to think....and "guns I've bought at gunshows" amounts to maybe a couple of pistols.... an M&P45, a Ruger .22 ......I can't remember guying any others. I have certainly accompanied my son, or friends when they bought a gun, but not very many times. Each time I have done either, the firearm was purchased from one of the large dealers like S.A.W., or Buds Guns. In those cases, the pistol in question was purchased at a somewhat discounted price. Perhaps that price was less elsewhere at some point in the future, but given time and place, it was definitely competitive.

But sometimes you can find incredible deals on other high dollar items at gunshows. I bought my 4x32 TA31F ACOG from a dealer in tactical rifles and accessories from a gunshow. I paid about $965-$975 for it (don't remember which for sure), and they had 4 of them at that price, as well as a couple of ACOGs with .308 reticles at similar pricing. The next cheapest price I got from another dealer for the same item at the same show was $1,040. MSRP was $1,345. Optics Planet's "today" price on that same item is $1,239, and at the time I bought mine, it was around $1,100. So $975 for a NIB ACOG was indeed a pretty good price.

About the only thing I consistently leave a gunshow with is beef jerkey. The main reason I do is to see what's out there. I don't have a SHOT show pass (although my current client has offered me one for next year), so gunshows serve that purpose for me.

As far as complimenting sellers on their over-priced guns, I don't bother. If I didn't think it was a nice gun....or at least an interesting gun....I wouldn't pick it up — and I usually look at the price tag before I even do that. If I think it is over-priced, I don't even want to handle it.

Concerning new firearms, what you may not understand is the small margins on firearms or that Bud's can sell items at 1-2% over what smaller FFL's like me buy it for plus Bud's does not have to charge sales tax (margins are getting like that of grocery stores). I have seen Bud's prices lower than my cost on more than one occasion. Just because you see something for sale at Bud's (or anywhere else for that matter) for a certain price it does not mean that everyone can sell it for that price and make a profit. Larger FFL's that sell massive amounts can get into buyer's clubs where they get lower pricing than the average Joe. If an FFL in a buyer's club decides to set their business model to have prices low and sell massive volume then they can make a profit due to buying at a lower cost and selling in volume. I know of one dealer that needs to make $25k a month just to cover overhead for their store and range, that is before even making a profit. Everybody likes a first class gun shop and range but then scoffs when they charge prices that people deem too high. I agree that sometimes they are too high but sometimes pricing is due to necessity and the whole pricing strategy is a slippery slope.
You now expect rock bottom prices and scoff at a dealer that sells for "too much". My opinion is that this mindset will eventually drive all the smaller mom and pop dealers out of business then the large guys have nobody to compete with and can raise prices or let you deal with their less than stellar customer service so in the end the consumer will lose out. Here is an example, when you figure in all my time to deal with ordering, receiving, logging in, disposing of packaging, wasting 60 minutes for customers that could not arrive on time at an appointment to save their life etc., I have at least two hours of my time wasted not even including tasks like auditing my books to ensure I am in compliance. I may make $15-$20 for that transaction if I am lucky and I am usually limited to a max of three per day (how does minimum wage sound for a firearms dealer?). At what point does a dealer like me say it is not worth the hassle? What happens when all that is left is companies like PSA that may have great prices but less than stellar customer service? In the end the consumer loses out by only having a few large dealers to buy from. I sell firearms because I enjoy it, not for the money (well, I do get some tax breaks too) so whether you buy from me or Bud's really does not matter. Just think about another perspective before you start expecting too much from firearms prices, you really do not see the big picture and hopefully this will give you a different perspective. Now, the used gun prices are a whole different matter, I have seen used prices higher than new and normally it is due to the person that paid too much when they purchased it or they overvalue their firearm.

Some of the worst offenders of high prices are pawn shops. I have walked away from many deals because of exorbitant prices for used and abused firearms.

Excellent analysis mrvmax! I totally agree with your assessment. Thank you.

New guns are definitely getting harder to make a profit on when competing with the big box internet guys. My dad still does alright in a small town because he's the only gun shop and everybody knows everybody. Wal-Mart sends him a lot of referrals for everything they don't carry or have in stock. He does more transfers these days from the high volume internet guys to "out of towners" but many local families still do business with him exclusively and wouldn't think about buying one from Wal-Mart or the internet if he can get it. He's been retired for 20 years but he still opens the shop 5 days a week if it isn't hunting season.

I don't see how one could survive in a large city competing with the big box guys buying massive volumes of firearms, accessories and parts. Has to be rough out there.

I've never bought a firearm from one of those big online sites like GunsAmerica. I have bought from a specific company via the internet (but won't do it again). So, are you supposed to haggle with the seller or not? After reading through these comments, I'm not really sure.

K.Mooneyham wrote:I've never bought a firearm from one of those big online sites like GunsAmerica. I have bought from a specific company via the internet (but won't do it again). So, are you supposed to haggle with the seller or not? After reading through these comments, I'm not really sure.

It's not so much as supposed to, but what your disposition is over haggling. I've never bought a gun, new or used, where I haven't put in a counter-offer to the stated price. Sometimes I prevailed....sometimes I didn't. But one thing for sure, had I not haggled, I would have never known if I could have reached a better price. Some people like to haggle. To me, it's "horse tradin' " and I love it. Some people loathe haggling, and that's their right.

Haggling over prices for a used gun is especially true, and not so much with new one's. Not much wiggle room in new guns as the other posters have stated. But used guns? You bet!

joe817 wrote:Excellent analysis mrvmax! I totally agree with your assessment. Thank you.

Agree, which is consistent with my previous posts in this thread, and which is why I don't dicker over my prices when I'm selling. I ask a fair price, and I'll pay a fair price. "Fair" when I'm selling means that I understand that the gun is not worth what I paid for it any longer, but neither and I willing to take a bath and just give it away. "Fair" when I'm buying means that I want to save money, but as a small businessperson myself, I actually want the seller to make a profit......just not a usurious profit.....at least not off of me.

The one thing I can't stand.....and it has never happened to me directly, but I watched someone try to do it to my son..... My son was selling a rifle/scope combination for $650 on TexasGunTrader. That was a fair price for that rifle, a stainless steel Ruger .308 topped with a Bushnell Elite 4200 scope. He was a lot less experienced than he is now, and a buyer contacted him and asked to see the gun and said he'd bring the money, and if he liked it, he'd buy it. My son still lived at home at the time, so I was there during the transaction. The guy liked the rifle......after spending about 20-30 minutes in my house, handling it and asking questions, then he said, "well I really want it, but I only brought $500 with me." I could see that my son was about to cave (he was still new at this), and I said to myself "hold up a minute......you came out here, knowing the price, got invited into our home, and wasted a half hour of our time, and thought it would be cool to try and scrape a full 23% off the price of the gun? You 'only brought'? What the heck did you think you were doing? Over the phone, you said you'd bring "the money". Well, "THE MONEY" = $650.....so were you lying then, or are you lying now?" I shot my son a glance and shook my head. He demured, and I think in the end he sold it for $600 after a little back and forth.....which made the "I only brought $500" into an obvious lie.

If you tell me you are "bringing the money", DON'T tell me you "only brought". Bring the full amount, and if you want to make a counter-offer, then do that. I won't be insulted by the idea of a counter-offer, as long as it isn't an insulting number. TELL me you only think it is worth X, but don't tell me that you only brought X, when the ad said it was more than that. Showing up with less than the asking price is just rude and a waste of my time. I probably won't dicker, but I respect someone who wants to dicker. I have no respect for someone who sets out to cheat me from the get go, and "I only brought" tells me that cheating me is what you set out to do. It says that you you are a person of low character, and I won't sell a firearm of any kind, for any reason, to a person of low character. It tells you you are a disrespectful person, and I won't be disrespected in my own home. I don't care if that guy shows up with double the money the next time, I wouldn't let him in the front door.........but I'd do him like he did me......I'd wait for him to drive all the way there, and then tell him "Oh, it's you. The price just tripled. Have a nice drive home". I have no patience for liars.

I think that buyers often assume that the seller is anxious to sell because he is desperate, and so the buyer assumes that he can use that desperation to his advantage.. My son was not desperate to sell in the above case, and I've never been desperate to sell a gun. I have been desperate to buy one, but for me, I've learned that "desperate to buy" is a warning sign NOT to buy; so I always take a step back whenever I've felt that way, and I'll wait a few weeks or a month or two to see if I still feel the same way later.