Unreasonable Prices - Why?

[AlaskanInTexas]

Just a little rant. I am getting pretty sick of people trying to sell guns way over market price. For example, just about every gun I am interested in is listed on Gunbroker at least $100 over Bud's price (with delivery included for Bud's). Day after day, I see virtually every gun listed on these auction sites expiring with no bids. I often see the same tactic on texasguntrader (though not to the same degree). It just seems so pointless. I have cash, you have a gun, but we can't get together because you think your used firearm (along with the risks and inconveniences of a FTF sale) is worth 125% of NIB value or are hoping that at some point you can victimize an uneducated buyer.

That is why I like this forum - I am much more likely to find a firearm at a price that approximates value.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Just use Bud's?

I do see that with .22 LR ammo sales a lot. As Dad would say, they sure think a lot about their (X) don't they?

Don't you have to pay to list something?

[The Annoyed Man]

If someone will pay that price, then that is its value. If nobody will pay that price, then that's not its value, and the gun won't sell unless the seller adjusts the price downward. But if somebody does buy, then your estimate of value is too low. That simple.

Whenever I have posted an item for sale on eBay, I had always listed it with a buy now price, and I won't accept offers for less than my price. I know what the item is worth, and let's face it......in the gun world, a lot of people are tightwads to the point of tendering downright insulting offers. I don't even respond to those. I don't buy junk, and when I sell it, I ask the price it is worth, not some tightwad's fantasy of what they are willing to part with. You get what you pay for. I haven't sold anything on gunbroker.com, but if I did, I would list it the same way as I do on eBay. Why? I know what my stuff is worth, and I don't charge unrealistic prices. My pricing is a fair market value. If that's too high for someone, then they can't buy my stuff, and I'm ok with that. Why? Because I've never sold a item online that I was hard up for the money for, and HAD to sell it. My policy is the same for items I've listed on TexasGunTrader.com.

I've only ever bought one gun through guntrader.com, a new in box left-handed Ruger Gunsite Scout, and the price was just a few $$ cheaper than I had seen for the same gun at local gun shows. But after paying for freight and an FFL transfer fee, I broke about even for the local price + sales tax. But I didn't get cheated really. It was a fair price for the gun.

I just sold a $2,000 AR-10 on this site. It only got one offer, but the person who bought it knows me and knows that I don't buy (or sell) junk, and he saw the value in what I offered for sale, and paid the asking price without quibbling. It was a lot of money, but it was worth a whole lot more than your bargain basement AR-10 carbine, and being a friend of mine, I allowed him to pay me $1600 down with the rest to follow in a couple of weeks. I would not have accepted those terms if he had not been a friend. Relationships allow for a certain amount of leeway, but if I don't know you, then......

See, I'm a fair guy.

Just trying to offer the other side of the argument.

[The Annoyed Man]

Just use Bud's?

I do see that with .22 LR ammo sales a lot. As Dad would say, they sure think a lot about their (X) don't they?

Don't you have to pay to list something?

You pay an auction fee, just like any other auction house. Pricing reflects what the seller hopes to net after they have paid guntrader.com.

[AlaskanInTexas]

Just use Bud's?

That's what I typically do. But I would prefer to acquire lightly used firearms from private parties to save a little money and to avoid sales/use tax.

[AlaskanInTexas]

If someone will pay that price, then that is its value. If nobody will pay that price, then that's not its value, and the gun won't sell unless the seller adjusts the price downward. But if somebody does buy, then your estimate of value is too low. That simple.

I agree - I just don't see the point of these listings that simply don't sell because they are nowhere near market value. This is not a matter of low balling on the buyer side. People are just listing stuff that is objectively and undeniably well above market value. It is not just a few people; it appears, at least on the auction sites, to be the predominant practice. I also get that if someone does buy it, that is its market value. But I refuse to do business with someone who's business model is to hang overpriced goods on the Internet until some sucker comes along. Chances are they would be a new shooter - what a way to welcome them into the world of firearms.

[fickman]

I wonder if some of those guns might be impulse buys from the panic, bought at significantly higher than retail. We saw a lot of speculators and opportunists helping to drive those prices up, and we also saw some unsuspecting folks being taken advantage of.

Now they may realize their retirement investment plans didn't pan out and are trying to recover some of their money.

Just a guess. . .

[Cedar Park Dad]

Just use Bud's?

I do see that with .22 LR ammo sales a lot. As Dad would say, they sure think a lot about their (X) don't they?

Don't you have to pay to list something?

You pay an auction fee, just like any other auction house. Pricing reflects what the seller hopes to net after they have paid guntrader.com.

Interesting. Its strange to see so many ammo auctions consistently priced over market (over market because they aren't sold, and no bids).

[Dave09]

I wonder if some of those guns might be impulse buys from the panic, bought at significantly higher than retail. We saw a lot of speculators and opportunists helping to drive those prices up, and we also saw some unsuspecting folks being taken advantage of.

Now they may realize their retirement investment plans didn't pan out and are trying to recover some of their money.

Just a guess. . .

That may be some of it. I think it mainly people trying to get other people to buy it that haven't done much research on the prices. Just like at a range I went to last weekend they had 40. ammo for $55+tax for boxes of a hundred and people were still buying it just because they didn't know any better.

[AlaskanInTexas]

Gunbroker.com does not charge for their standard listings unless there is a sale. I'd love to see a listing fee of a few bucks that gets paid regardless of whether the gun sells (but is a credit against the final fee if it does). That would give sellers some incentive to really engage and carefully price instead of just clogging up the site with garbage listings. Or perhaps some sort of a grading system that shames these people by giving the percentage of their listings that go unsold - I doubt any seller would want this label.

[Cedar Park Dad]

that explains a lot.

[The Annoyed Man]

Gunbroker.com does not charge for their standard listings unless there is a sale. I'd love to see a listing fee of a few bucks that gets paid regardless of whether the gun sells (but is a credit against the final fee if it does). That would give sellers some incentive to really engage and carefully price instead of just clogging up the site with garbage listings. Or perhaps some sort of a grading system that shames these people by giving the percentage of their listings that go unsold - I doubt any seller would want this label.

That's not a bad idea. OTH, it would significantly reduce their listings as some sellers would self-eliminate from the mix, and in part, gunbroker would suffer in terms of advertising fees. I count at least two ads on their home page right now which have nothing to do with any guns/ammo for sale. For them, it's a lose/lose situation. They can anger viewers such as they've obviously done to you, or they can lose money on advertising by charging a listing fee for listings that will rapidly dry up as soon as they start having to pay a fee to list. Gunbroker is first and foremost a business, before it is a service, and they are between a rock and a hard spot with viewers who object to their practices; but I don't see how they can alter the paradigm without losing money they are currently earning.

I suspect that what you're seeing is the aftermath of all the hoarding/panic-buying of recent history, and it will eventually calm down......in about 2 years.

[AlaskanInTexas]

OTH, it would significantly reduce their listings as some sellers would self-eliminate from the mix, and in part, gunbroker would suffer in terms of advertising fees.

I have a different point of view. When I search for a firearm, it usually brings up several hundred of what I am interested in. I don't click on all of them (and I doubt others do either). I can easily see that 90% are starting a couple hundred over market value and I disregard. The ones I do click on are those that have lots of bids or appear to be a good value. Often, I get involved in the bidding war, which usually leads to many page views for the same firearm - not just by me, but by the many other bidders.

Now if the overpriced listings dry up because of a listing fee, I doubt that will change the foregoing - I don't think the overpriced guns were generating a lot of page views. In fact, weeding out those sellers might increase page views as it would lead to a dynamic, engaging, auction marketplace. My guess is that it would take about 100 overpriced firearms to generate the page views of a single firearm that is the subject of a competitive bidding war.

[rotor]

Just a little rant. I am getting pretty sick of people trying to sell guns way over market price. For example, just about every gun I am interested in is listed on Gunbroker at least $100 over Bud's price (with delivery included for Bud's). Day after day, I see virtually every gun listed on these auction sites expiring with no bids. I often see the same tactic on texasguntrader (though not to the same degree). It just seems so pointless. I have cash, you have a gun, but we can't get together because you think your used firearm (along with the risks and inconveniences of a FTF sale) is worth 125% of NIB value or are hoping that at some point you can victimize an uneducated buyer.

That is why I like this forum - I am much more likely to find a firearm at a price that approximates value.

Some people are willing to pay a premium for say a lightly used Marlin with a jm stamp vs a new Marlin (Remington) from Bud's. Not every NIB is as good (perhaps) as an older slightly used model. The value of a firearm is decided by the purchaser.

[Salty1]

I sell items occasionally on GunBroker and start with my bottom line price and let it run it's course. I also take into consideration the fee that is associated with utilizing their listing services. Over the past month I sold 3 handguns and a scope. 2 or the 3 handguns I received a good amount more than I wanted, the scope went for much more than I could have hoped for. Basically it comes down to what somebody is willing to pay for the item and some do not do their research or just really want the item so paying a bit more is a value to them in order to get it. From my perspective if a listing fee was charged then it would be rolled onto the purchaser somehow then yet again the price will creep up.

I agree that many items are listed with a ridiculous price. I have a Ugartechea shotgun currently listed (a consignment) with a starting price of $5250, many people would consider that too high, unless they actually knew what this shotgun is and the quality of it. What is comes down to is "to each their own" if the overpriced common guns do not sell then they will either stop listing them or reduce their asking price.