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Ah yes, the inevitable lawsuit. While I feel for the family of this guy, I have to take the officers side on this. Violation of his civil rights? Come on. This guy ran from the officers, and when caught, reached under the seat after exiting the vehicle. Are the police supposed to wait and let the BGs get off the first shot before defending themselves?

I cant believe that anyone trained as a CIA agent would do something so blatently stupid. It sounds to me like he knew what would happen, and did it deliberately, AKA suicide by cop. The whole thing about being a CIA agent is doubtful in my mind.

When he ran from the officer, he gave up any right to unlawful search and siezure, as he has just committed a felony, so thats a no brainer.

"When a person has their back to you, the officer cannot be in reasonable, objective fear for his life," Kallinen said. This statement shows that Kallinen has no clue about what LEOs daily lives are like. I guess that if a BG has his back to you, he cant be doing anything the officer should be concerned about, like getting the loaded shotgun or pistol that was found in the vehicle.

Then it goes on to mention that in the short time (28 years, and 22 years for a total combined of 50) the two officers were employed by HPD that there were "several disciplinary problems" for violating dept rules. I would like to see one cop that hasnt had some kind of reprimand in 20 years of service. For that matter, I would like to see one person who has been employed anywhere that hasnt made a mistake in 20 years. It does say that one of the officers slapped a suspect, a definate no-no, but before judging him, wait to see what the circumstances were, and regardless, what does it have to do with the supposed CIA Agent?


Mark my words, the movie script is probably being written as we speak.

Like I said, I truely feel for his family, but in the end, the officers did what they are trained to do.

I am certain most folks here would agree that if you break the law, run from LEO, and make stupid decisions, you must face the consequences of your actions, no matter what credentials you have in your pocket.

At least that is the way it should work.

Anygunanywhere

Acts Nervous, Runs from the police at 125mph, steps out then reaches under seat, oh yeah never mind ID as LEO so that raises the suspicions of a possible weapon. ANd his family wonders why he got shot?

I wonder why he got shot!!!! The officers may have been justified in shooting in the strict confines of the situation of him getting out and reaching for something.

But who determined that it had to be handled immediately by the patrol officers who were amped up from the chase??

Once Carnaby's vehicle was stopped and barracaded in, he was no longer a threat to anyone except himself.

He bailed out because of the officer shattering the passenger side window.

Once stopped, there should have been plenty of time of get supervisors on scene, SWAT, negotiators (does HPD have any) or even contact family to try to deescalate the situation without killing him.

I hate to refer back to the O.J. chase, but it does show that there are ways to avoid killing suspects, if anyone cared.

Mike, I have to disagree with you.

After an extensive high-speed chase, he gets out of the vehicle, for whatever reason, then reaches back inside for "something shiny".

No longer a threat to anyone except himself?

If you're the on-scene LEO, are you going to take a chance on giving him the first shot free?

When seconds count, the supervisor is minutes away.

Whatever Mr Carnaby was or was not, reaching back into the vehicle without saying something like "I want to use my cell phone to call my attorney" was incredibly stupid. I'm not saying he deserved to die that day, but I have empathy for the cops on-scene, as well as for his family.

I'm saying there was no need for the officers to swarm around the vehicle and force his exit by breaking out windows.

With the vehicle stopped, there should have been plenty of time to reassess the situation and make decisions.

Allowing adrenalin flushed officers to assault the vehicle produced the only result that it could have.

I'm not against any officer defending themselves. However, their own actions created the situation that resulted in Mr. Carnaby's death, and it matters not who turns out to be.

LarryH wrote:Mike, I have to disagree with you.

After an extensive high-speed chase, he gets out of the vehicle, for whatever reason, then reaches back inside for "something shiny".

No longer a threat to anyone except himself?

That report is not supported by the video.

My point was that once the vehicle was stopped and blocked in, someone should have pressed the 'pause' button.

Don't break out his car windows forcing him out of the car.

Let him sit there until cooler heads prevail and hopefully the situation can be resolved without shooting.

What I took from this, and I'm stretching it to make a point, is that if HPD chases someone for an hour, someone's getting shot!

OK, Mike. Now I see what you meant.

Breaking out his windows WAS stupid. Before that was done, there WAS an opportunity to de-escalate, but the officers didn't do so.

Point taken.

mike obviously you are not and never have been an LEO. Go ride with one a couple of nights. Step into those shoes and see if you have the same perspective.

Yes, I was for about 7 years. My brother retired from HPD after 37 years. It's not that I can't see it from an LEO's viewpoint.

They were justified in the actual shooting. I've never said otherwise.

But once the vehicle was stopped, the officers created a situation that couldn't end any other way.

Edited to add: I do concede that I was never personally involved in anything like this pursuit.

Mike we all have our views. I was in LE for 15 years, 2 in SWAT. The suspect created the situation, the officers reacted to him. All he had to do to live was comply with instructions. IF and I stress IF he was in fact an experience LEO, federal or otherwise then he knew how to act. IF he was not the it goes back to drivers ed 101. When stopped by the police do as instructed.
As an experienced officer you have all people should know had the suspect 1- not ran- 2 when he did stop comply with instructions and 3 - dont make any sudden unauthorized movements, he would be alive and well today. Worse case scenario he would have been charged with impersonation, assuming he is not with the CIA.
Anyway Mike, The neat thing about the Constitution that you and I and thousands of others have sworn to defend in our past is that we are able to disagree and voice our respective opinions. Lots of questions remain on this one no doubt.

I am troubled by the only phone call that I've read about him making during the chase.

He called a friend who repeatedly told him to pull over and stop.

Carnaby replied, "I can't".

At this point, we'll never know what Carnaby was thinking or what mental problems he may have had that caused him to act irresponsibly.

I still say that once the car was stopped that there were other options not taken, in my opinion, for expediency.

I know officers are trained, but the last person I want making a life / death decision for me is an officer that is amped up on adrenaline from a long chase. Matter of fact, I don't want him making any decisions at all.

Mike1951 wrote:Yes, I was for about 7 years. My brother retired from HPD after 37 years. It's not that I can't see it from an LEO's viewpoint.

They were justified in the actual shooting. I've never said otherwise.

But once the vehicle was stopped, the officers created a situation that couldn't end any other way.

Edited to add: I do concede that I was never personally involved in anything like this pursuit.

The vehicle was just temporarily stopped..the guy was still behind the wheel of 4k lbs of guided missile

All he would have had to do was toss it in reverse and floor it, then toss it in drive and go around

The situation was still volatile and dangerous with the badguy still in his vehicle..the police need to remove the suspect from his tool of destruction in order to control the situation, they bashed the window out to get to the driver to pull him out since he wasn't exiting the vehicle when ordered to do so..when he did get out he reached back in for (a knife, a grenade, a gun, a pink rainbow flower, a trigger for the 10lbs of explosives in the back, a ipod, a cigarette) you get the point..the guy reached back in for **something** still involved in a dangerous situation...the police reacted by what info they had on hand...any delay in judgment in that situation the suspect could have turned around with a MAC-10 and mowed down 3-4 officers in the blink of an eye...would you have rather them hesitated...oh yah...hind site is 20/20

just wondering if anyone has heard more on this story