TexasCHLforum.com

speedsix wrote:...of course I don't carry a purse...I carry it in my bra...but what point were you making with that post??? it wants explanation...

(at least I'm 62)

The point is: what works/feel good/makes sense to us manly-men may fly in the face of everything the distaff hold dear or consider reasonable or important. I'm not sayin' that's right, I'm sayin' that's the way it is.

Vive la différence!

Most purses wouldn't notice the difference between an airweight and an old Colt Detective Special...all steel...technically rated for +P ammo.

Hoosier Daddy wrote:Most purses wouldn't notice the difference between an airweight and an old Colt Detective Special...all steel...technically rated for +P ammo.

Oldgringo wrote:

speedsix wrote:...of course I don't carry a purse...I carry it in my bra...but what point were you making with that post??? it wants explanation...

(at least I'm 62)

The point is: what works/feel good/makes sense to us manly-men may fly in the face of everything the distaff hold dear or consider reasonable or important. I'm not sayin' that's right, I'm sayin' that's the way it is.

Vive la différence!

... I was responding to your question: "She ultimately bought a S&W snubbie in .38 Spec. but really does not like to shoot it. So, what is better, a handgun that is friendly to shoot or a gun that hurts you to shoot?" by suggesting that for a few more ounces she could have adequate power AND more comfortable shooting...big ole fat macho man that I once was, I won't carry an airweight...it hurts on both ends...a steel snub would be a third option that would beat the other two choices...and the short walk to her car wouldn't be as tiring as carrying all day long...

Hoosier Daddy wrote:Most purses wouldn't notice the difference between an airweight and an old Colt Detective Special...all steel...technically rated for +P ammo.

Quite probably true since many of them weigh more than a soldier's full combat gear

In the show they are hunting gators for the skin and meat correct? A .22LR will kill a gator at point blank without damaging the skin along the stomach which is the money maker. Anything larger will damage that skin making it worth less.

So at point blank with good shot placement a .22LR would be all you need for a slow gator, but for a person in a self defense situation it wont stop someone as fast as you like. I usually advocate for .380 at least.

Oldgringo wrote:

Hoosier Daddy wrote:Most purses wouldn't notice the difference between an airweight and an old Colt Detective Special...all steel...technically rated for +P ammo.

Ms. 7075 Wanted an easy-to-carry, easy-to-shoot, low recoil revolver so she got a S&W351PD .22magnum. (She also has a P239 9mm and a LCP but they all have their tradeoff's.)

Is it the best caliber on the planet, no
Can she place 90% of her rounds in the rings, 100% in the green, with most inside the 8 ring at the range, yes.
Does she feel that she is confident enough to (heaven forbid) use the gun with confidence, yes.

One she takes with her is infinately better than one she leaves at home.

7075-T7 wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:

Hoosier Daddy wrote:Most purses wouldn't notice the difference between an airweight and an old Colt Detective Special...all steel...technically rated for +P ammo.

Ms. 7075 Wanted an easy-to-carry, easy-to-shoot, low recoil revolver so she got a S&W351PD .22magnum. (She also has a P239 9mm and a LCP but they all have their tradeoff's.)

Is it the best caliber on the planet, no
Can she place 90% of her rounds in the rings, 100% in the green, with most inside the 8 ring at the range, yes.
Does she feel that she is confident enough to (heaven forbid) use the gun with confidence, yes.

One she takes with her is infinately better than one she leaves at home.

There it is, my point exactly!

Oldgringo wrote:

7075-T7 wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:

Hoosier Daddy wrote:Most purses wouldn't notice the difference between an airweight and an old Colt Detective Special...all steel...technically rated for +P ammo.

Ms. 7075 Wanted an easy-to-carry, easy-to-shoot, low recoil revolver so she got a S&W351PD .22magnum. (She also has a P239 9mm and a LCP but they all have their tradeoff's.)

Is it the best caliber on the planet, no
Can she place 90% of her rounds in the rings, 100% in the green, with most inside the 8 ring at the range, yes.
Does she feel that she is confident enough to (heaven forbid) use the gun with confidence, yes.

One she takes with her is infinately better than one she leaves at home.

There it is, my point exactly!

And I find no disagreement. MY earlier response was to drjoker's pretty bold (not to mention incorrect) statement that a .22 is all one needs, and to his question of "what's the difference between getting shot by a .22 and a .45?"

Certainly a .22 in hand is better than the .45 you left at home, and I don't think that anybody would argue that point. BUT, to argue that the smaller, weaker caliber is just as good as the larger, far more powerful caliber is just plain wrong........and I have the years of Emergency Room experience to back up my assertion. Yes, my experience is anecdotal. It is also real. Nobody else has to believe me, but I know what I know, and when you have to wash someone else's blood off your hands and clothing real regularly, you know something about how they survived or died in a way that no dry textbook or statistics can communicate it. YMMV, and all that.

The point of defensive shooting, both from a legal AND moral perspective, is to STOP an attacker, not to kill him/her. Thus, incapacitation is the name of the game. The odds are that the larger more powerful caliber will more effectively stop an attacker than will the smaller less powerful caliber. If this were not true, then pistols and rifles chambered in .22LR would be the weapons of choice for police forces and militaries the entire world over. It isn't, and there are very good reasons for that. Of course shot placement is a large factor; but that doesn't discount the "fudge factor" that a larger caliber provides you. Of course there are plenty of stories of people who absorb multiple 9mm/.40/.45 hits and keep on coming.....but there are fewer of those—at least based on my own experience—than there are of people who absorb multiple .22 hits and keep on coming. In my years of working in the ER, I saw LOTS of people survive multiple hits from a .22. I saw a lot fewer people survive multiple hits from larger centerfire calibers—and this isn't simply attributable to the prevalence of .22 caliber pistols. I saw one guy shot twice through and through the abdomen from side to side with a .41 magnum. He lived........for about a week. But more importantly, he was instantly incapacitated.

If I may make an analogy: getting shot dead with a .22 is like getting beaten to death with a whip. Getting shot dead with a .45 is like getting beaten to death with a baseball bat. Both can kill you if applied in suffient quantity. Both will likely hurt like hades on the receiving end. Both will eventually stop you. But the bat is more likely to stop you faster than the whip will, because it doesn't just lacerate you like the whip does; it crushes your tissues, shatters your internal organs, and breaks your bones.

So, if all you can convince your wife to carry is a .22LR/.22 magnum, then that's what will have to suffice, and better that than nothing. But, it borders on the irresponsible to advocate that for everybody, as drjoker seems to be doing, instead of advocating carrying the largest and most effective defensive caliber pistol that the person who is carrying it is willing and able to carry. A supressor equipped Colt Woodsman might have been the favored assassination tool of Chicago gangsters at one time (and given Chicago politics, it still might be for all I know), but CHLers are not sneaking up behind an unsuspecting victim and shooting them behind the ear. My wife can and does carry a 9mm pistol, every day. According to drjoker's argument as I understand it, that is totally unnecessary and she should carry a .22 instead.....and similarly, I should abandon my 9mm and .45 pistols for a .22. There is no way that is either a reasonable, responsible, or MORAL assertion.

If that is not what he meant, then I apologize for the misunderstanding. But that is certainly the way it came off to me.

The Annoyed Man wrote: But, it borders on the irresponsible to advocate that for everybody, as drjoker seems to be doing, instead of advocating carrying the largest and most effective defensive caliber pistol that the person who is carrying it is willing and able to carry.

Exactly, right on, 100% correct.

It may not fit everyones specific circumstances. No recommendation on here does.

But to advocate that .22 is as good as anyone needs and there's no reason to discourage its use is downright dangerous.

If that's all someone is capable of carrying, its better than nothing. But it is so far from a good choice that it MUST be dismissed as a valid choice for most people who carry.

We have a lot of people who read this board who don't even post who are just trying to learn. To let them walk away thinking there is no need to attempt to carry a better defensive tool than a .22 is irresponsible on our part.

I know someone that is intimate with the production of this show. While the 'gator huntin' is real, understand that liberties are taken from a production aspect to enhance the "action" we see on T.V.

chuckybrown wrote:I know someone that is intimate with the production of this show. While the 'gator huntin' is real, understand that liberties are taken from a production aspect to enhance the "action" we see on T.V.

Really? Do they do that on the other so-called reality shows too? How about 'rasslin? Say it ain't so...

There was an earlier argument about a .22LR being essentially the same as the 5.56 (.223) caliber that the military shoots, just that the military round as more powder behind it. The problem with this argument is that that extra powder -- and velocity -- makes a world of difference. .22LR muzzle velocity runs 1000 to 1400 feet per second, depending on specific cartridge. The military rounds are traveling at over 3000 f/s when they exit the rifle, and this makes a world of difference in the terminal performance on flesh within effective ranges.

Here's an article about a guy who tells the story of when he essentially played the role of the 'gator when he was shot about 20 times at conversation distance with a .22 rifle.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/nyreg ... .html?_r=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shot placement counts. For me, I've determined that placing 14 shots (soon to be 16) with my 9mm hi power gives me a better overall chance of getting a place that counts versus the same or lesser number in.22 or .45. Others may disagree, carry what you want and can.

Oldgringo wrote:

chuckybrown wrote:I know someone that is intimate with the production of this show. While the 'gator huntin' is real, understand that liberties are taken from a production aspect to enhance the "action" we see on T.V.

Really? Do they do that on the other so-called reality shows too? How about 'rasslin? Say it ain't so...

Oldgringo.....you may find it hard to believe that Lizard Lick Towing might have some "added features" as well.........

if you shoot some animal in the eye ball with high powered air rife. Said animal could be dead!