.22 lr is all you need....

[drjoker]

Saw "Swamp People" and I noticed that everyone just uses a .22 lr to shoot gators. The native american father/son pair use .17 rimfire. Liz uses .22 magnum revolver. Troy and Willie use .22 lr rifles. The sharpshooter who hunts with Troy uses a shotgun.

Shot placement is everything. If rimfire can kill a 1000 lb gator then I'm sure that's adequate for stopping a human thug. These Swamp people do what works without regard for modern marketing. Bigger caliber tacticool stuff is cool, but a .22 lr or .22 magnum will get 'er done.

[C-dub]

Probably true if you're sniping, but during a self defense type situation I don't think a .22LR will nearly as effective as a .45ACP. I doubt too many of those gators were charging them at the time they were shot.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Well, that's a unique point of view.

As long as I can have a helper hold down the bad guy so that I can give him a contact shot to the top of his noggin,
I guess I'd be fine with a .22 LR also. :-)

However, the way I envision an encounter with a 2-legged reptile I'll stick with my current weapons, and will
probably go to .45 when I get something new. YMMV.

SIA

[rwg3]

One of the TBI programs I used to administer in a major crime center, I mean major metropolitan city, used to hate treating head wounds from .22's especially the shorts. The bullet often did not have the energy to penitrate both sides of the skull and as result used to bounce around inside the brain cavity. It often screwed up more areas of the brain then a wound which passed cleanly through. I can see how this would work on gators too, although I suspect the choice to use the smaller caliber is as much economic as anything else.

[Excaliber]

Saw "Swamp People" and I noticed that everyone just uses a .22 lr to shoot gators. The native american father/son pair use .17 rimfire. Liz uses .22 magnum revolver. Troy and Willie use .22 lr rifles. The sharpshooter who hunts with Troy uses a shotguns,

Shot placement is everything. If rimfire can kill a 1000 lb gator then I'm sure that's adequate for stopping a human thug. These Swamp people do what works without regard for modern marketing. Bigger caliber tacticool stuff is cool, but a .22 lr or .22 magnum will get 'er done.

I haven't seen the videos, but I'd wager these shots aren't taken at arms length like most in defensive encounters are.

If you're not close enough to get hurt right now, a low powered round carefully placed into an unsuspecting beast will certainly get the job done.

It's a mistake to equate that with what happens during a violent defensive encounter when everyone is real close, moving fast and working real hard to put their adversary down.

[speedsix]

...TV... not reality...

[WildBill]

...TV... not reality...

Swamp people is not real? What about wrestling?

[74novaman]

Have fun with that. You can also drive a semi truck through downtown DFW to work, but that doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job.

Carry what you like, but to anyone else reading this...stick with a common defense caliber.

There's a reason we refer to our .22 pistols as plinking guns.

[apostate]

There's little question the humble .22 does kill many people, but that's rather different than stopping an assailant before he delivers lethal injury to me or mine.

Similarly, poachers have killed bear with .22 LR but that doesn't mean its a good choice to defend yourself from a bear attack.

[AEA]

Gators don't get high on Crack and Meth and turn into super humans like BG's do. I want 9mm as minimum and plenty rounds of it. .357 would be fine too but .45acp makes big holes.

[FishInTx]

I want 9mm as minimum and plenty rounds of it. .357 would be fine too but .45acp makes big holes.

I thought 9mm might be too small but I did some tests on some milk jugs with some Hornady CD rounds and they "blown up real good". Good expansion and penetration. Magazine capacity of 15 rounds is nice too. No .22 IMO

[drjoker]

Probably true if you're sniping, but during a self defense type situation I don't think a .22LR will nearly as effective as a .45ACP. I doubt too many of those gators were charging them at the time they were shot.

I haven't seen the videos, but I'd wager these shots aren't taken at arms length like most in defensive encounters are.

Actually, in one episode, the native american dad fell head first at a charging gator but his son shot it with a .22 lr rifle with less than a foot to spare. They usually drag the gator right up next to the boat before shooting it. Often, they would trek out of the boat onto land to shoot the gator. The gator would sometimes charge them in this situation.

I mean, let's ignore marketing hype and think for a moment. What's the diference between getting shot with a .45 in chunk of lead and a .22 in chunk of lead? I mean, what's .23 inches? I had a woman who was in a domestic dispute get shot in the head with a .357 magnum and she drove herself to the E.R. The round somehow did not expand and went cleanly through her head. If you get hit in a non-vital area and you're a "superman" high on drugs, no bullet is going to be a "magical caliber" and stop the threat. However, if you get shot with a bullet in the spinal cord in your neck, any caliber will stop the threat.

It's quite telling that the US military use a .223 caliber (or 5.45 mm) rifle that's basically the same width as .22 lr but just more powerful for better shooting at longer distances. Since self-defense distances are usually less than 20 feet or so, you don't need the reach of a .223 but a .22 lr or 22 magnum would work just fine. For adequate penetration into vital areas and tumbling to cause extra damage, I suggest use of heavy .22lr subsonic projectiles in a revolver for self-defense, if you are already using .22 lr for self-defense. I also suggest fmj for .22 magnum instead of hollowpoints, also for more penetration into vital areas, if you're already using .22 magnum. Either a revolver or a Kel-Tec PMR 30 would work for .22 magnum. Notice, I'm not trying to convince anyone to use rimfire ammo over centerfire ammo for self-defense, but if that is all you have or all you could afford, then don't sweat it. Just put the bullet where it's supposed to go and it will work.

If you read the news, you'll notice that there's a common thread to ALL those killed by thugs, they are unarmed. Everyone that I read who was armed was able to save at least one life. The person wielding the defensive gun did not always live, but the defender was always able to save a life of at least one person or more if he/she was armed. Get a better gun if you can, but if you had to choose between a CHL with a .22 lr or a fancier gun with no CHL, then just get your CHL and arm yourself with a $100 revolver. It will be O.K.

Also, what is of most interest to me are all the pizza delivery drivers who defend themselves with just a .22lr handgun. PIzza delivery drivers make less than minimum wage. They get paid $4 per hour plus tips and with the rising price of gas, the "mileage" paid them barely pays for gas but not maintenance/depreciation/insurance. So, a lot of these pizza delivery drivers are defending themselves with just an inexpensive .22 rimfire gun. The ammo is cheap, too, so they can afford to practice shooting their gun until they are expert marksmen, even on a sub-minimum wage salary.

Lufkin, TX, a papa john driver shoots TWO SHOTGUN armed thugs with just a .22 lr derringer. With just 1 shot of .22 lr each, the threat was stopped.
http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general- ... bbers.html

Here's another pizza driver who shoots 3 gang members with a .22:
http://gunssavelives.net/self-defense/v ... ody-armor/

Articles with some studies on .22lr:
http://gunssavelives.net/blog/trends-in ... ghty-22lr/
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

[i8godzilla]

As one that killed a few gators in my youth, it is all about shot placement. My friends and I once shot one in the head--from about six feet--with a .357 only to have him come alive about 30 minutes later. Ever try and get a really mad gator out of the bed of a pickup? There is another thread around here about a BG being hit multiple times and still being able to fight back. I also remember a story I posted some time back about a motel clerk defending herself with a .22 killing the BG with one shot. Just like real estate it is location, location, location. I will just continue to use my .22s as range guns that are fun and cheap to shot.

[74novaman]

I'm still not sure if this is a serious thread or just blatant trolling.

You seriously believe it's "marketing hype" that is responsible for people not choosing .22lr as a defensive round?

And the car companies had a carburetor that would get 150mpg too, but they were in bed with big oil and kept it secret too, right?

[apostate]

You're free to carry a 22 if you like and, if you're Claude Werner or very lucky, that may be enough. That said...

I mean, let's ignore marketing hype and think for a moment. What's the diference between getting shot with a .45 in chunk of lead and a .22 in chunk of lead?

A typical .45 ACP self defense round is 200-230gr at 800-1000fps. Let's call it 500 joules, give or take.
A typical .22 LR round is 40gr at 1000-1100fps. Let's call it 150 joules to be generous. That's still less than 1/3 the energy.

I suspect the difference in energy (and the size of the hole, to some extent) will result in significant differences in penetration and damage resulting from torso hits. That would seem especially true if the target is wearing a leather jacket, is heavily muscled or fat, or is turned sideways when the bullet hits. These are just my thoughts. You have to work out your own salvation.

Fair enough, get either inside the cranium and it will probably do the job. The trick is getting it in there.