I've always heard that it's a good idea to use the same type of ammunition that your local police department uses, so today I checked with the police here in Fredericksburg: they use Speer GDHP in .40 cal.
As luck would have it, that's what I use in my two handguns.
Crash
Local Police Ammo
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mr surveyor
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The same guy that says you should intentionally miss on the CHL test.mr surveyor wrote:and where did that suggestion come from?
FWIW, I asked our city cops what they use. They do not have a standard weapon or ammunition. IIRC, the only requirements are 9 mm or .38 Special or larger hollowpoints.
- Jim
Last edited by seamusTX on Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jim,seamusTX wrote:The same guy that says you should intentionally miss on the CHL test.mr surveyor wrote:and where did that suggestion come from?
FWIW, I asked our city cops what they use. They do not have a standard weapon or ammunition. IIRC, the only requirements are 9 mm or .38 Special or larger hollowpoints.
- Jim
Who said you should intentionally miss? I've never heard anybody say that. Or are you:
1. Giving us your opinion of the accuracy of GDHP?
2. Being facetious?
Crash
SkipB,SkipB wrote:That is a good round Crash. There are alot of places to get info on ammo from and a Law Inforcement Agency is surely one.
I've read and heard good things about the GDHP from almost every source. My reason for asking the Police Dept is that if, God forbid, I did have to shoot someone to protect myself or another person, my choice of ammo would be very defensible if I had to defend myself a second time in a courtroom.
Crash
The notion of intentionally not getting a perfect score in the CHL test comes up frequently in this forum. Here's the latest example, only a couple of days old: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... hp?t=10723Crash wrote:Who said you should intentionally miss? I've never heard anybody say that. Or are you:
1. Giving us your opinion of the accuracy of GDHP?
2. Being facetious?
I have no opinion about the accuracy of Speer Gold Dot. They have an excellent reputation, but I have not used them.
I was being facetious when I said the same guy came up with the "perfect score" business and using the same ammo as local law enforcement.
I am aware that Massad Ayoob gives this advice. He gives a lot of advice that I believe is irrelevant to the legal and social environment in Texas. In this state, deadly force is deadly force, whether you use a rock or shotgun slugs. I don't know of any case in Texas where the brand or caliber of ammunition made a difference.
- Jim
Jim,seamusTX wrote:[
I am aware that Massad Ayoob gives this advice. He gives a lot of advice that I believe is irrelevant to the legal and social environment in Texas. In this state, deadly force is deadly force, whether you use a rock or shotgun slugs. I don't know of any case in Texas where the brand or caliber of ammunition made a difference.
- Jim
Yeah, there are a number of things that Ayoob says that I take with a grain of salt. However, he was not the only source for checking with the local PD.
I know that we now have the Castle Doctrine as law in Texas, but I'm still not convinced that you cannot be tried in a civil court. I don't think we will know for sure until it's been tried. Because of personal experience I have every faith that some lawyers will do anything to make their case. I sat as a member of the jury on a military court-martial and you cannot believe the misconduct on the part of one of the lawyers. He told an outright lie, based on information he had obtained illegally, intended to impugn the integrity of a member of the jury. Because of this, he was officially reprimanded when he returned to the base at which he was stationed. So, maybe I'm a little bit paranoid about what can happen in a courtroom.
Tequila Jake
GDHP is very common with law enforcement. As pretty much all HP ammo of recent design performs essentially the same, I believe that the common LE use of Speer Gold Dot to be more financially motivated than anything else. All other things being relatively equal, departments opt to buy the cheapest ammo.
I am by no means an expert, but in my own limited research into this subject tells me that Gold Dots seem to be the most common load to be carried by LEOs around here. Federal HST and Winchester Ranger are also common loads. Hornady XTP is as good a performer as the rest of these, but is more expensive and I haven't found any department that officially carries it in my searches. In my personal experience, the Hornady ammo has the slickest brass of any of these brands, and seems to feed the best of any ammo I've shot.
Personally, I carry 124gr.+P 9mm GDHP in my main gun, and 95gr. 9x18 (Makarov) Hornady XTP rounds in my BUG/light carry gun.
Around here, I've found that most departments have their officers carry .40 or .357Sig, and most of them carry either GDHP or Federal HST. UTPD carries only Winchester Ranger in .40 and Glock 23 pistols.
All of that said, I agree with others that there's very little chance that there will be any quibbling in court about what kind of ammo you carry - at least here in Texas. At any rate, I'm sure whatever you choose to carry, you will find that LEOs somewhere carry it.
I am by no means an expert, but in my own limited research into this subject tells me that Gold Dots seem to be the most common load to be carried by LEOs around here. Federal HST and Winchester Ranger are also common loads. Hornady XTP is as good a performer as the rest of these, but is more expensive and I haven't found any department that officially carries it in my searches. In my personal experience, the Hornady ammo has the slickest brass of any of these brands, and seems to feed the best of any ammo I've shot.
Personally, I carry 124gr.+P 9mm GDHP in my main gun, and 95gr. 9x18 (Makarov) Hornady XTP rounds in my BUG/light carry gun.
Around here, I've found that most departments have their officers carry .40 or .357Sig, and most of them carry either GDHP or Federal HST. UTPD carries only Winchester Ranger in .40 and Glock 23 pistols.
All of that said, I agree with others that there's very little chance that there will be any quibbling in court about what kind of ammo you carry - at least here in Texas. At any rate, I'm sure whatever you choose to carry, you will find that LEOs somewhere carry it.
A rabid lawyer (either DA in criminal case or plaintiffs if civil) who tries to make your ammo choice an issue can come up with something to slur ANY ammo. For example:
Military ball -- You're a Rambo wannabe running around looking for someone to shoot.
Your local PDs ammo -- You're a cop wannabe running around looking for someone to shoot.
Glazer safety rounds -- Pre fragmented and designed to blow up in someones body that you're running around looking for someone to shoot to see how effective they are...
As long as your lawyer is effective at his job and you're NOT some nutjob running around looking for someone to shoot, all these arguments can be shown to be the hyperbole they really are. Your best bet is to choose your self defense ammo based upon its accuracy, feeding reliability in your gun and stopping effectiveness with maybe some concern towards cost.
Military ball -- You're a Rambo wannabe running around looking for someone to shoot.
Your local PDs ammo -- You're a cop wannabe running around looking for someone to shoot.
Glazer safety rounds -- Pre fragmented and designed to blow up in someones body that you're running around looking for someone to shoot to see how effective they are...
As long as your lawyer is effective at his job and you're NOT some nutjob running around looking for someone to shoot, all these arguments can be shown to be the hyperbole they really are. Your best bet is to choose your self defense ammo based upon its accuracy, feeding reliability in your gun and stopping effectiveness with maybe some concern towards cost.
Reasonable gun control is hitting your target with the first shot.
Jeremae wrote:As long as your lawyer is effective at his job and you're NOT some nutjob running around looking for someone to shoot, all these arguments can be shown to be the hyperbole they really are. Your best bet is to choose your self defense ammo based upon its accuracy, feeding reliability in your gun and stopping effectiveness with maybe some concern towards cost.
I'm not going to add to the debate of why (or why not) to consult your local PD on ammo choices....
BUT, Irving PD carries 147 gr Speer GDHP as department issue for those that are carrying a 9mm, regardless of whether it is a Glock, Beretta or S&W.
For 9mm training, they use 147 gr Blazer (aluminum cased).
The tactical officers carry .357 sig, and those currently carrying a 9mm will be switching to .40 or .357 sig within the next 18 months. Unfortunately, I do not have information on exactly what round is/will be used for these calibers.
BUT, Irving PD carries 147 gr Speer GDHP as department issue for those that are carrying a 9mm, regardless of whether it is a Glock, Beretta or S&W.
For 9mm training, they use 147 gr Blazer (aluminum cased).
The tactical officers carry .357 sig, and those currently carrying a 9mm will be switching to .40 or .357 sig within the next 18 months. Unfortunately, I do not have information on exactly what round is/will be used for these calibers.
Concealed Carry since 8/17/07