51% Rule

Photoman · Post by **Photoman** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:37 am

Hockey season is here again and I noticed the local ice rink (not professional) has a 51% sign on the front doors. There is a small bar upstairs that does a little bit of business on the weekends.

I couldn't imagine the ice rink meeting the 51% rule so I checked with TABC. Sure enough, the ~bar~ meets the 51% rule but it's not the same business as the ice rink. Since the liqour license has the building address, TABC says the whole building is off limits.

What's up with that?!

chewy555 · Post by **chewy555** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:47 am

That is just not right. I wonder if there is a loop hole that could be closed to change that.

RubenZ · Post by **RubenZ** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:00 am

That doesn't make sense. Thats like saying that you can't carry in Applebees or Chili's because they have a Bar area inside the same address.

RubenZ · Post by **RubenZ** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:00 am

Oops. doublepost

Kalrog · Post by **Kalrog** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:06 am

It isn't the 51% sign that makes it off limits... it is the actual revenue numbers and the TABC license. You can legally carry in the rink, but you might have some explaining to do to the LEOs if they notice you carrying (although you probably would anyway if they noticed you carrying). The fact that you actually called TABC shows that you were proactive on this one.

Did you ask that they explain the rules to the rink operator?

ctxpta · Post by **ctxpta** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:01 pm

Think outside the 51% sign also.

Photoman · Post by **Photoman** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:21 pm

Kalrog wrote:It isn't the 51% sign that makes it off limits... it is the actual revenue numbers and the TABC license. You can legally carry in the rink, but you might have some explaining to do to the LEOs if they notice you carrying (although you probably would anyway if they noticed you carrying). The fact that you actually called TABC shows that you were proactive on this one.

Did you ask that they explain the rules to the rink operator?

That's interesting K. The clear impression I got from the TABC was that the whole building was off limits as that is the address on the license. Are you saying I can legally cross a valid 51% sign so long as I don't go into the bar area?

srothstein · Post by **srothstein** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:30 pm

The way the current law is written, the whole building is a licensed premise if the building was listed as a licensed premise. To restrict it to just the bar area, the licensee would need to file a drawing with the application that would then mark off just the parts of the building to which the license applies. If the bar owner does this, you could carry in the rink as long as you stay away from the bar. This is what happens with a bar in a strip center or a mall.

If the bar owner is also the ice rink owner, he could be running the location as two separate businesses at the same location. In this case, I am not sure how the rules on marking off parts of the business work but I think they are the same.

Now, to address the specific problem for this. You can do several things about this. The first is to ask the owner to amend his application to mark off the bar area as the licensed premise. You can also ask him to jsut report all of the sales properly to get the 51% removed. Talking with him for voluntary compliance is the best way, and letting him know of you other options might help.

The second is to file an open records request with TABC for any papers having to do with this license application. This will show you if there is a marked off area or not. If there is a marked off area, file a complaint with TABC that the location is not properly posted for the marked off area. You can also ignore the 51% signs (not recommended but you could) for the areas that are not part of the licensed premise.

If it is not marked off, then you can file a complaint with TABC that the person improperly reported the percentages of alcohol sales and other sales on his license application. You can also file a protest against his renewal of the license on these grounds. Either a complaint or a protest might be enough to convince the owner to rethink the way he has the license drawn. Of course, it might also be enough to get the owner mad at you and look for other ways to get back at you.

As a final option, you can always assume the owner did it deliberately to be anti-gun. In this case, you just stop going there and find a different rink if there is one near you. This might be the easiest way to handle the problem anyway, but I would let the owner know why also. I would also let him know how many of your friends you have told to avoid the business.

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:37 am

Here's a quick and easy way to check what constitutes the "licensed premises" boundary per the TABC license: try to take a drink out of the bar, and into the general seating area of the hockey rink. If they tell you that alcohol is forbidden past a certain point, then that is almost certainly the point where the licensed premises stop.

It's not sure-fire; the entire building could be licensed premises as far as TABC is concerned, but there could be a management decision to not allow alcohol in the stands. But I'd be pretty certain that if they won't let you leave with a drink, you have a good reason to press on for more information from TABC.

yobdab · Post by **yobdab** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:27 am

I thought you couldn't carry to a proffesional sporting event.

longtooth · Post by **longtooth** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:21 am

original post stated it was not a pro rink. Thus the delima

Photoman · Post by **Photoman** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:54 am

Thanks for the excellent information guys. The bar does have a marked area for drinks only. I'll have to speak with the bar owner and see what I can find out.

Photoman · Post by **Photoman** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:56 pm

I checked tonight with the bartender and alcohol is restricted to part of the upper level. My next step is to find out if that is due to the license or due to rink policy.

Renegade · Post by **Renegade** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:49 am

Kalrog wrote: Did you ask that they explain the rules to the rink operator?

Don't do that or you will end up with a 30.06 sign instead of a 51 sign.

The law really does not address two businesses sharing the exact same premises. Thus I see where TABC is coming from. The solution seems to be outlined by srothstein, to force the bar to define its premises differently from the rink. They may not want to do that, as many rinks operate "adult night", and want to sell/possess alcohol at the rink.

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:39 am

Photoman wrote:I checked tonight with the bartender and alcohol is restricted to part of the upper level. My next step is to find out if that is due to the license or due to rink policy.

Excellent way to take it step by step! (I think I suggested those steps.

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51% Rule

51% Rule

Hello! Professional sporting event also comes to mind!!!