Qustion Regarding Permission Given By Owner To Carry

[dihappy]

Can a 20yo be given permissin by owner of a business to carry without a CHL?

This is not a Bar, just a convenience store.

Thanks.

[seamusTX]

Of course the owner can give the employee permission, but does it have legal weight? I think it's a gray area.

First, let's look at this:

PC §46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control;

Does the employee control the premises? Is his title assistant manager? Can he tell customers what to do?

Then we have this possible exception:

PC §46.15 NONAPPLICABILITY. (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who::
(7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises.

Again, is the 20-year-old acting as a superviser? Do you have to be 21 for that, in the case of places that sell alchoholic beverages?

- Jim
Edited to fix incorrect quotation

[Dragonfighter]

Of course the owner can give the employee permission, but does it have legal weight? I think it's a gray area.

Again, is the 20-year-old acting as a superviser? Do you have to be 21 for that, in the case of places that sell alchoholic beverages?

- Jim

If he mans the store alone at any time, during that period the place is under his control.

A person who is not of legal age to drink can sell alcoholic beverages under certain circumstances; I.E. a grocery store. I believe a restaurant can have a waitress under legal drinking age serve as well...at least they used to.

[9mmGuy]

Of course the owner can give the employee permission, but does it have legal weight? I think it's a gray area.

Again, is the 20-year-old acting as a superviser? Do you have to be 21 for that, in the case of places that sell alchoholic beverages?

- Jim

If he mans the store alone at any time, during that period the place is under his control.

A person who is not of legal age to drink can sell alcoholic beverages under certain circumstances; I.E. a grocery store. I believe a restaurant can have a waitress under legal drinking age serve as well...at least they used to.

you have to be 18 to serve or sell alcohol in Texas.
edit: sorry no help with the OP.

[txinvestigator]

We have another long thread on this; but there is no provision in the law for a preson to grant another the ability to carry a handgun.

A clerk at a store CAN carry if not prohibited by his employer under the section already quoted by SeamusTX.

Seamus, I have to make a correction in your quote, though. You posted 46.15 (a) "Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to", and then posted a law from 46.15 (b). 46.15 (b) states "section 46.02 does not apply to a person who".

A person who holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises is NOT exempt from 46.03.

[seamusTX]

Seamus, I have to make a correction in your quote, though. You posted 46.15 (a) "Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to", and then posted a law from 46.15 (b). 46.15 (b) states "section 46.02 does not apply to a person who".

Thanks. I fixed it.

- Jim

[Liko81]

If the person carrying is on the premises of their employer, and in the course and scope of duties they are wearing a weapon with the knowledge and consent of the employer, they are acting as an agent of the employer, and while in course and scope of duties their word and actions carry the weight of the employer's. The only question I'd have is carry of an open or concealed handgun by a person under 21.

[txinvestigator]

Just because the owner tells you to carry a gun does not mean you can legally do so. The Clinique girl at Macys certainly does not have control of the premises, so even if the store manager told her she could carry there in fact legally she cannot (minus CHL of course).

However, the manager of Macys could, as could the assistant manager, etc.

The age of 21 has nothing to do with it, alcohol sales or not. A person 18 or over may sell or serve alcohol, and The Penal Code makes no age 21 restriction.

[dihappy]

Thanks TX

So, if the person is a manager/supervisor and has the owners permission...he/she could legally carry if under 21 and not a be a CHL holder?

Did i read all that correct?

[frankie_the_yankee]

Thanks TX

So, if the person is a manager/supervisor and has the owners permission...he/she could legally carry if under 21 and not a be a CHL holder?

Did i read all that correct?

IMO, I don't think they even have to be a manager or supervisor. I think the owner/manager/person in authority can delegate "control of the premesis" to any employee or employees he sees fit. I see nothing in the statute that refers to any particular job title being a requirement.

Any employee can be an "agent" of the owner/manager/ etc.

IANAL, but that's how I would interpret it.

You see this in action at many gun shops. I've never heard of a gun shop employee getting arrested for either UCW or failing to conceal. I know that some believe that this is just the police exercising enforcement discretion, and it is possible that that's all it is. But my own belief is that there is more to it than that. In other words, that it is legal.

[txinvestigator]

Frankie is right. Any employee with control of the premises can carry, concealed or openly, with or without a CHL.

[seamusTX]

Frankie is right. Any employee with control of the premises can carry, concealed or openly, with or without a CHL.

I was hoping to let this drop, but ...

Every employee does not have control of the premises. You said it yourself about the Clinique "girl" at Macy's. The law (which I quoted above) does not specifically mention job titles, but it uses the terms control, and supervising.

A clerk in a convenience store, particularly one who is alone on the premises at times, has control. A stockboy in a grocery store or a busboy in a restaurant does not.

- Jim

[txinvestigator]

Frankie is right. Any employee with control of the premises can carry, concealed or openly, with or without a CHL.

I was hoping to let this drop, but ...

Every employee does not have control of the premises. You said it yourself about the Clinique "girl" at Macy's. The law (which I quoted above) does not specifically mention job titles, but it uses the terms control, and supervising.

A clerk in a convenience store, particularly one who is alone on the premises at times, has control. A stockboy in a grocery store or a busboy in a restaurant does not.

- Jim

I didn't write that every employee has control of the premises. See the red highlighted section above. ;)

[9mmGuy]

Dont you have to be 21 to legally buy and own a handgun? So if the owner/manager gave a 20 year old control of the premises and permission to carry under that authority, can he give or issue that employee a handgun to do so with?

[seamusTX]

Dont you have to be 21 to legally buy and own a handgun?

You have to be 21 to buy a handgun from an FFL. You can buy one from a private party at 18, and you can possess one at any age in Texas.

- Jim