Legal Question, Modifying a Chinese SKS

[lawrnk]

SO I bought this Norinco SKS today, to replace the one I stupidly sold in 1992


It is chinese, and I have not gotten it yet. I cannot tell the brand of this presumably after market stock, possibly the monte carlo 3rd party stock.
To my question, can I convert this to accept 30 round mags, legally?

[Mike1951]

I'm sure you'll an answer from someone more knowledgeable, but I'll take a stab at it.

We're past the AWB, so use of high cap mags should not be an issue.

High caps used to be one of the 'evil' features and you were only allowed two.

I'm not familiar with the Norinco, but I assume converting it to use detachable mags is the same as other SKS's.

I think the issue will be USA content, or how many components are of USA manufacture.

I don't have the law bookmarked on this, but will try to locate.

[308nato]

You might try going to http://www.sksboards.com ,they have all the info that you will ever need about the SKS.
One of the MODS there is here in Houston and does beautiful refurbs on wood stocks.

[txmatt]

Looking at the pictures you posted, it's already been done for you. The only modification the SKS needs to accept an external magazine is to remove the 10 round internal box mag that is stock. Then you can just insert an aftermarket external magazine, which you can get in just about any size you could want. Unless you are talking about converting to an AK mag or something, which is beyond my level of experience...

(edit: you posted this as a legal question so disregard all but the first sentence. I always thought it was really stupid when they made laws saying that an SKS that had been "converted" to accept external hi cap mags was illegal (as in California) when all that modification entails is removing the magazine box which one does every time one detail strips the gun. So my gun is illegal while I'm cleaning it in California... Makes me glad to be a Texan.)

[ELB]

The rules on modifying imported military arms are enough to make my head hurt when reading them, and Chinese SKS's are especially headache-inducing. Generally imported military arms must remain in their original configuration to be legal, and Chinese SKS's have some additional considerations due to the fact that a certain former president that wants to be First Bubba banned importation of Chinese guns to allegedly punish the Chinese for human rights violations. Funny how he didn't ban importation of every other cheapo widget in the universe, nor banned importation of Chinese campaign donations... but that's another topic. The ATF has decided that if you put enought American-made parts into a gun (the parts-count or USA content that Mike1951 referred to), it is no longer an imported gun, but an American one -- but of course that generally plays havoc with one of the best features of the SKS -- it is very inexpensive. So to answer your question, I think you can legally convert to the 30 round mags, but the magazine is not the only change you will have to make to keep it legal.

Anyway, the importation rules were enough to induce me to make only the smallest of mods to my Chinese SKS (sights and sling) -- that and I adhere to the rule that most aftermarket parts subtract from reliability. Especially WRT to extended/removable mags, I read varying (unhappy) reports, so I believe I am best sticking with the original 10-rounder. It has given me no trouble.

Having said all that, you need to go investigate at least these two websites:

1. http://www.victorinc.com/SKS-FAQ.html
This guy, L.E. Schwartz, researched the laws pertaining to SKS's, and discusses how they interplay at this link.

2. http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php
This is forum that goes into great detail on each of the various SKS's (chinese variants, Yugoslav, Romanian, etc), as well as discusses legal aspects. The guy mentioned above, and some others, regularly write to the ATF about issues, and posts the answers (ATF memos) on this board.

My advice is, unless you are a fanatical tinkerer, leave the SKS as it is and enjoy shooting it. Maybe update the sights. I prefer the Mojo sights (I have one), many prefer the Tech-Sights, and there is also a Williams peep sight available, but it looks fragile (I have one of these also). (Whoops, I forgot, your picture shows it with a scope, so maybe you don't care about the iron sights.)

Good luck.

elb

[KBCraig]

What it boils down to: the AWB is dead, but the AWB has nothing to do with modifying imported military arms. What still applies is 18 USC 922(r), which makes it illegal to assemble from imported parts any gun that wouldn't be legal to import. It has to do with that mythical "suitable for sporting purposes" nonsense.

Yes, headache-inducing.

18 USC 922(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes (snip)

And if you're curious, 925(d)(3) says,
(d) The Attorney General shall authorize a firearm or ammunition to be imported or brought into the United States or any possession thereof if the firearm or ammunition—
(3) is of a type that does not fall within the definition of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes, excluding surplus military firearms, except in any case where the Attorney General has not authorized the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if assembled;

[shootthesheet]

From my understanding a removable mag may not be used unless the rifle was converted prior to 1994. And the SKS falls into a different category than the Clinton AWB rifles. If they had a folding stock and a removable mag before then you are okay. If not it is illegal as is now. That is, unless it was converted to use AK mags. I would be cautious about these rifles because many were ruined and don't work properly. The "D" (I think) version came from the factory that way and are prized rifles.

Now, it can be done. You must meet the requirements of American made parts in order to use removable mag, folding stock, etc. . Most can get close but it becomes a matter of replacing parts in the trigger assembly in order to reach the goal. Not an option for me. So, I left my Chinese SKS as is except for a scope mount. I then went out and paid for an AK look alike so I don't have the problems. I don't see the BATFE knocking down doors or collecting these illegally converted rifles at gun shows so unless the gun is used for defense or something that will cause an anti-gun LEO, who knows the insane BATFE requirements, you can really do what you want.

I personally decided to leave mine alone, get a 30 round mag and if the a problem arises, convert it if necessary. It is not in my opinion. It just makes the rifle heavy. I like the Chinese rifle and would suggest you get it if the price is right. I would ask for the original mag and put it back in. Then save some money and get an AK look alike with a folding stock or whatever else you want. They can be had for around $500-$600. That way the BATFE can continue to harass other innocent people and you don't lose your rights. Just my opinion. The BATFE web site has all the info you need if you can actually make any sense of it.

[tarkus]

From my understanding a removable mag may not be used unless the rifle was converted prior to 1994. And the SKS falls into a different category than the Clinton AWB rifles.

That's right. Chinese SKS falls under the Bush gun ban. Like the Reagan 1986 ban on real assault rifles, the Bush 1989 ban on imported look alikes didn't have a sunset.

My opinion is if you want an AK then buy an AK/WASR. By the time you convert the SKS it's going to cost as much as a AK/WASR and have less resale value. The only changes I would make to a SKS are maybe better sights or optics. They're good trunk guns now that used 30/30 lever actions are so expensive.

[lawrnk]

Wow, this is a ton of great info. Thanks and I really appreciate it. One thing that concerned me is it appears that sling, scope, and stock are foreign aftermarket. That concerns me on the 10 part rule. I did find a company who makes the 30 (or 39) round drop in that is american made. I wonder if that would make any difference.

[ELB]

Wow, this is a ton of great info. Thanks and I really appreciate it. One thing that concerned me is it appears that sling, scope, and stock are foreign aftermarket. That concerns me on the 10 part rule. I did find a company who makes the 30 (or 39) round drop in that is american made. I wonder if that would make any difference.

You really need to go read the actual 922 regulations and study the threads on the forum I listed above. The scope and the sling do not make any difference, but I believe the stock does, and the magazine certainly does (and IIRC, the magazine counts for two or three parts). I stopped following the SKS business awhile back once I figured out I could change the iron sights and sling w/o a problem, but the whole parts-count issue is very tedious. The ATF defines which parts count, and which do not, but even so there is debate about how those apply to the SKS. For a long time the SKSinistas debated whether the SKS had one or two "operating rods" -- someone finally got a letter from the ATF answering this question.

Again, me, I stick to stock as closely as possible. Like someone recommended above, if you want detachable mags, get a AK. Uber-reliable, rugged, even simpler (fewer parts) to field strip than an SKS, and certainly accurate enough to any self-defense scenario I can think of.

Good luck.

elb

[lawrnk]

Wow, this is a ton of great info. Thanks and I really appreciate it. One thing that concerned me is it appears that sling, scope, and stock are foreign aftermarket. That concerns me on the 10 part rule. I did find a company who makes the 30 (or 39) round drop in that is american made. I wonder if that would make any difference.

You really need to go read the actual 922 regulations and study the threads on the forum I listed above. The scope and the sling do not make any difference, but I believe the stock does, and the magazine certainly does (and IIRC, the magazine counts for two or three parts). I stopped following the SKS business awhile back once I figured out I could change the iron sights and sling w/o a problem, but the whole parts-count issue is very tedious. The ATF defines which parts count, and which do not, but even so there is debate about how those apply to the SKS. For a long time the SKSinistas debated whether the SKS had one or two "operating rods" -- someone finally got a letter from the ATF answering this question.

Again, me, I stick to stock as closely as possible. Like someone recommended above, if you want detachable mags, get a AK. Uber-reliable, rugged, even simpler (fewer parts) to field strip than an SKS, and certainly accurate enough to any self-defense scenario I can think of.

Good luck.

elb

Thanks, I plan to wait until it arrives to see exactly what I have. I do have a MAK-90, but I am trying to get as many possible weapons that I suspect the muslim apostate will ban if he becomes POTUS. Frankly, I think I will likely buy an original norinco stock for this gun as they are cheap at gun shows. I like the idea of a scope, but I generally prefer guns like my cars, in original factory configuration.

[T3hK1w1]

From what I have experienced, and heard from others, the SKS can be a real pain to try aftermarket mags with.

Edited to remove incorrect info :p

[WarHawk-AVG]

Those 30 round removable mags are HORRIBLE, I immediately went back to the 10 round fixed mag and have had NO trouble with it at all...I too have the composite Monte Carlo Stock, it is longer than the wooden stock and it allows me to get a better cheek and stock weld



I got mine for $80 bucks when I did some computer work for a friend, he gave me his pawn slip and like 500 rounds

I am unsure if the SKS requires a parts compliant list or not, many AK's do