Carry at other people's homes

BobCat · Post by **BobCat** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:36 pm

Suppose you generally carry everywhere not specifcally prohibited by law, and are invited into the home of someone you believe would not want you to be carrying - a friend of your wife's, or someone you are friendly with but not friends with.

Suppose further that it is a "nice" suburb where the rash of armed robberies of people coming home from work has abated but no real suspects have been aprehended; i.e. it is "supposed" to be a safe, civilized place but it is still in "the real world" - not fantasy land.

Do you just figure, "Concealed means concealed" and forget to worry about it, or do you leave your sidearm in your car?

When I leave my CZ75 in my truck at places that are 30.06 posted (e.g. Brown Convention Center), I take the slide stop along with me. The pistol is effectively useless without it, so even if it is stolen, I have not armed a criminal (until he buys a slide stop for a CZ75... unlikely but not, I suppose, impossible). I mention this to say it is possible to leave it relatively "safely" in the truck, if need be.

I feel uncomfortable being in someone's home armed, thinking this particular person would not want a gun in the house. OTOH I am not happy being without it for "no good reason" - except the host's predudice.

Thanks in advance for any opinions or speculation y'all care to share.

Regards,
Andrew

RatMan · Post by **RatMan** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:41 pm

I'd carry. Matter of fact, I have done this more than once. If it's concealed they'll never know and if something happens where I need to use it, I bet they'd be glad. If not, I would be satisfied knowing I tried to stop a crime in progress.

BobCat · Post by **BobCat** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:52 pm

Thanks for the reply!

This happened last Saturday evening. Party at the home of my wife's friend. I carried as normal, no one had any reason to know or notice, but in some way I felt it was rude and wondered how others see the situation.

My wife questioned it since it is a small house and she thought there might be a lot of people at the party, and close quarters would result in someone bumping into me and noticing it - but it was a false concern.

Regards,
Andrew

Lindy · Post by **Lindy** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:10 pm

I'd carry, unless they have specifically asked me not to. I don't have any friends who would do so. Nor would I ask them. If someone bumps into me, they probably won't ask. A common assumption might be that it's a cell phone.

Only about one percent of Texans have CHLs, and the remainder probably never give much thought to people carrying handguns.

BobCat · Post by **BobCat** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:44 am

Lindy,

Thanks! I agree tht most people don't think about it, and even though these people know I shoot rifle matches, I doubt the thought of anyone actually carrying a handgun would ever enter their minds.

What my problem is, is that I know I'm doing something in someone else's home, that they would not want if they knew about it. At my house, or in public, it is my business and no one else's. In *their* house, I feel like their rules ought to apply, and I'm uncomfortable breaking their rules even though they don't know about it.

It is reassuring that the two people who have replied so far have both agreed with what I ended up doing, even if it gave me some "theoretical" discomfort.

Regards,
Andrew

Post by **Charles L. Cotton** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:08 pm

Andrew:

I appreciate your concern about respecting other peopleâ€™s wishes on their property. I think that overall attitude of respect and responsibility is in large part the reason the CHL law has been a huge success for close to ten years. In my opinion, being respectful of their wishes does not require you to presume they would be opposed, if they knew, so if the subject never comes up, I wouldnâ€™t worry about it.

Like Lindy and Ratman, I too have occasions to carry at another person's home. Quite often it is in connection with a political event, or fund raisers, and the homeowners may be friends, mere acquaintances, or total strangers. I have never once been asked if I was carrying, nor have I been asked not to carry in their homes. If I were asked, I would honor that request, but I also would not stay. I would politely explain why, but I would leave nonetheless. (I'm sure my wife wouldn't like it, but she knows this is one of those "line in the sand" things for me.)

One time at a seminar I was giving, I had a woman ask somewhat incredulously "surely, you don't carry a gun all the time!" I responded, "Of course not; I take a shower every morning." Everyone laughed, except the lady asking the question. All of my friends and family members, and most acquaintances, know I carry unless I'm in court, or elsewhere it would be prohibited. Surely, someone in that group would disagree with me on the CHL issue, but the subject has never been raised. There might be an element of "don't ask, don't tell" going on, but I suspect most people really don't care.

Regards,
Chas.

dolanp · Post by **dolanp** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:13 pm

Hmm, I wonder if a 'political event' would fall under Penal Code 46.035(c):

(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a
governmental entity.

What do you think?

Post by **Charles L. Cotton** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:14 pm

dolanp wrote:Hmm, I wonder if a 'political event' would fall under Penal Code 46.035(c):
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a
governmental entity.
What do you think?

Not of the type I meant. I was referring to rallies, candidate meetings, strategy sessions, etc., but not official meetings of governmental entities. As an aside, even meetings of governmental entities are not off-limits unless posted with a 30.06 sign or notice is otherwise given as required in 30.06.

See, Texas Penal Code Section 46.035(i).

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Regards,
Chas.

dolanp · Post by **dolanp** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:25 pm

D'oh! My bad.

sensei · Post by **sensei** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:31 am

Like Lindy and Ratman, I too have occasions to carry at another person's home. Quite often it is in connection with a political event, or fund raisers, and the homeowners may be friends, mere acquaintances, or total strangers. I have never once been asked if I was carrying, nor have I been asked not to carry in their homes. If I were asked, I would honor that request, but I also would not stay. I would politely explain why, but I would leave nonetheless. (I'm sure my wife wouldn't like it, but she knows this is one of those "line in the sand" things for me.)

Yep! Me too! What he said.

sensei

Greybeard · Post by **Greybeard** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:38 am

I attended a funeral and associated (large) family meals this past weekend. The enviroment was such that I'm sure there were a few "antis" in the group who would have freaked out had they known I was carrying. But, I had no qualms about how the deceased would have felt about it, so I carried anyway - everywhere.

Several years ago when at another funeral, a long-lost cousin suddenly approached with a hug and "discovered" a very hard object under my suit coat on right hip. She appeared shocked for an instant, then remembering what I did, asked "Was that what I think it is?" ("Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies.") Since that time, I've found a smaller gun in a pocket holster or ankle rig to be a better method for such events ...

BobCat · Post by **BobCat** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:36 am

Gentlemen,

Again, 'Thank You' for replying.

I suppose it is foolish to need my actions "validated" by others, but I was indeed uncomfortable with the prospect of carrying in a person's home, who I believe is an anti. Once we were there it was not an issue and I think it was the right thing to do, but I was skittish of not showing proper respect.

These people are British, and a generation ahead of me and my wife - the guy was a Merchant Seaman during WWII. During a conversation with him another time, somehow the topic of small arms came up and I said something like, 'Imagine how the blitzkrieg in 1939 would have fared if all the locals had RPGs or bazookas' and his eyes lit up at the prospect of an invading armored force being decimated by the locals. Then he caught himself and gave me the standard line about arms in the hands of ordinary citizens being inapproprate. This is why I think he would not want me to be carrying in his house...

Anyway, it has been an interesting discussion and I am comforted that no one (so far) has said I was dead wrong to violate his private space by carrying.

Regards,
Andrew

Post by **Charles L. Cotton** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:23 am

BobCat wrote: . . . These people are British, and . . .

Andrew, Andrew, you withheld critical information about your situation that changes my response entirely! Had I known they were Brits, I would have worn two 1911's, taken my coat off, and told them we fought two wars starting 228 years ago so we wouldn't have to put up with that crap!

Just kidding

; I'm French/English myself, but a 4th generation Texan. (Yeah, I know; French/English is a strange combination. To steal a line from Blazing Saddles, I guess one of my distant grandmothers didn't run fast enough.)

Regards,
Chas.

BobCat · Post by **BobCat** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:54 pm

Charles,

Jeez Louise! I saw:

"Andrew, you withheld critical information about your situation that changes my response entirely!"

and thought I'd really put my foot in it. Glad you were just kidding!

My screen name may be BobCat but I'm much more like your typical stray - no pedigree, and proud of it!

I think of the US not as a melting pot, but more like a stew. All the ingredients, taken together, make up something better than any one by itself; but each retains something of its original nature - flavor, texture, color, whatever - and is enhanced by being stewed together with all the others, taking on some of their flavors.

These people are basically very decent, intelligent, and interesting - wherever they originally came from. I felt funny carrying at their house but will be more relaxed, next time.

Regards,
Andrew

TraCoun · Post by **TraCoun** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:15 pm

Of course the Brits think guns in the hands of the general population is inappropriate .... look what it did for them in 1776 :P

Also, I saw something about a Japanese general from WWII who, I believe in the 60's, was at some conference or something, and was asked why the Japanese did not invade the U.S. at the start of the war when they had a clear shot to the west coast. In essence he said that they knew we had lots and lots of armed citizens who even regularly competed in rifle matches. They figured if they actually invaded the U.S. they would have gotten their _ _ _ _ _ kicked!

TraCoun